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Education

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Original poster

group telling off ........

49 replies

Angeliz · 19/03/2008 16:28

hi all,
dd1 had a fab assembly this morn.
All parents from her year were invited and they were all amazing. At the end the head said he wanted to see everyone at break.
I quizzed dd1 about it when she got home and it turns out some kids have been putting lots of paper down the loos and blocking them.
All the kids had to sit in the hall through their whole break and get a lecture and a few things were said that didn't sound nice.

I don't want dd to get away with everything but she's very good at school and i know it wasn't her so i'm quite annoyed that after a lovely heartwarming start to the day she gets punished for something she hasn't done........

OP posts:

cornsilk · 19/03/2008 18:59

I think keeping the whole class in at break is OTT. There are ways to get chn to fess up. A whole class talk from the teacher along the lines of, 'If the person responsible doesn't come and speak to me about this I'll have to get the Head involved and he'll be very cross etc' usually does the trick I find. What will they do if the person keeps doing this?

Original poster

Angeliz · 19/03/2008 19:02

mr too cornsilk. It was the whole school btw!

OP posts:

cornsilk · 19/03/2008 19:05

Lots of very cross children I should imagine. Blocking up the toilets is naughty and horrible for the cleaner but punishing the whole school! Is he a generally strict Headteacher?

Original poster

Angeliz · 19/03/2008 19:06

Appears to be. He's pretty new and very different to the previous head.

OP posts:

cornsilk · 19/03/2008 19:08

Do you think he's trying to assert his authority then?

InTheseShoes · 19/03/2008 19:21

I think the person who said they have to take the highs and the lows together is right. When my school was Ofsteded the head organised for an ice cream van to come to school the next day because it had gone so well. Should only the classes who had been observed been able to eat an icecream with the rest looking enviously on? Of course not.

If there is no clear evidence of who has done this, I wonder what alternative there is. It may prevent other children from "copycat" actions, it may also help other children make a decision to prevent/report a similar action in the future. It may make sure that the culprit never does it again/comes clean. It isn't ideal, but I can't think of any other way to try to stop it happening - I would imagine there's some pretty serious policing of the toilets going on in conjunction with this too. As someone has pointed out: no toilets=no school!

cornsilk · 19/03/2008 19:26

or the person responsible could enjoy the idea that they have caused the whole school to be punished. I have worked in some difficult schools but have never known a Head punish the whole school for the actions of one child.

Blandmum · 19/03/2008 19:28

I think that people are forgetting the fact that they school doesn't know who did this.

The alternative to getting them all in is , in reality, is letting them all go. In which case more toilets will be blocked.

the school cannot deal with individuals, because it is dealing with the whole school.

the kids are not going to die because they missed a break.

they stand to gain a lot more by the toilets being kept in reasonable condition.

I have threatened to hold kids back ay yje end of school if the guilty party didn't 'fess up. I dare say there are parents who would complain. But peer pressure meant that the guilty party did 'fess up. In the end the kids who were inocent were not inconvenienced.

But I bet that there are MNetters who would be spitting tacs at my tactics

cornsilk · 19/03/2008 19:32

Is this primary or secondary? I think in a primary school getting a child to own up isn't that difficult. Would have no idea about secondary, so if it's a secondary school I'll butt out of it.

Blandmum · 19/03/2008 19:33

Secondary.

Blandmum · 19/03/2008 19:35

We have had to close the toilets for students. Prior to my starting teaching I thought that this was utterly abhorrent and unforgivable.

However I now know that there are girls in the school who will shit in the middle of the floor, and ones who will decorate the walls with used sanitary pads.

Now I think that locking the toilets is abhorrant but in some cases understandable

Original poster

Angeliz · 19/03/2008 19:59

This ism primary. Even the reception kids had to sit.
I totally agree with warning them and know they won't die without a break but just feel annoyed that she missed her break and fruit through no fault of her own.
She's just 7 btw my dd.

OP posts:

ScienceTeacher · 19/03/2008 20:07

Sometimes whole classes have to be punished. However, the teacher will realise the unfairness of this and make it up to the others in a discreet way.

As a Science teacher, and I'm sure that MB will agree, we have to count out and in certain pieces of equipment, eg scalpels. If we don't count in the right number, we simply have to hold onto all the students. It's a serious health and safety issue.

If there is any foul play, the culprits will be peer-pressured into fessing up. It's one thing to bug authority; it's another to do it to your mates.

roisin · 20/03/2008 15:33

I really dislike whole class punishments. I have memories from school of once having a detention, because the whole class were given a detention for something. I can't remember what it was, but I can remember it didn't seem justified to me, and I resented that teacher for my whole school career.

I nearly came to blows last week because I covered a class for a teacher and a couple of lads were messing about, and as a result the whole class didn't complete so much work. I kept the 3 boys back for abotu 15 mins of their lunchtime, and dealt with them ... they won't do it again for me. But without discussing the lesson with me, the class teacher then set the whole class a 15 min after school detention the following week! Both I and the TA felt this was completely wrong, but she's an NQT and clearly knows better than us lowly 'support staff'

Phew! I needed to get that off my chest, didn't I?

Anyway in Angeliz's case, the school didn't know who the culprits were, so there was no option. And I agree with the majority opinion here that missing the break was not unreasonable in that instance.

roastlamb · 23/03/2008 10:42

Sometimes it's necessary to hold the enitre group. I find it works as a good warning to the other children too.

Some of my staff (all "adults") were coming to work late and getting friends to clock in for them. As a result, I had put in a new rule that affected all of my employees. They weren't happy, but we stopped having problems with tardiness.

Some of my staff were 30 years old....

Cammelia · 23/03/2008 10:47

Sounds normal to me.

hercules1 · 23/03/2008 10:49

Perfectly okay to me. They weren't kept behind after school for hours, they missed a break. Standard practise for such things.

cory · 23/03/2008 10:58

If it had been a real punishment, something tough, I couldn't agree with you more. But this is realy quite a small thing, missing one break. And it's not like an innocent person has been singled out, which would much worse IMO.
Same thing happened at my dc's (7 and 11) junior school a couple of weeks ago and they came home full of indignation against the new head. I basically told them to get over themselves.

chickenrun · 23/03/2008 11:26

Its really not a big deal being kept in for one break. Your daughter will learn that the actions of herself and others, for better or worse, contribute to the society that we all have to live in. As adults we live with the consequences of 'naughty' people every day. We don't leave our keys in the car at the petrol station, we lock the door, even when we are at home, we don't walk down dark footpaths at night. It sucks but its life.

ScienceTeacher · 23/03/2008 12:55

Wise words, chickenrun

princessosyth · 23/03/2008 13:03

I agree with chickenrun. When I was at school someone was stealing from childrens lunchboxes and we all had to miss out on our annual summer trip to Thorpe Park. It did seem very harsh at the time but the motivation behind the punishment was to show that an individuals actions have consequences for everyone.

Cammelia · 23/03/2008 14:39

Oh I don't agree with that princess that's too harsh, only agree with group being spoken to, not punished in that way

Plus, what if the perp was genuinely hungry

princessosyth · 23/03/2008 19:25

Sadly Cammelia that was probably the case.

Cammelia · 24/03/2008 12:28

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