Is this usual for primary school?

[LollyPopLouie]

Ds is 6. He goes to a mainstream school with 60 kids over 2 classes. In his class there are 3 children with 121 support so the class is busy. In the other class there are 2 children with 121 so overall 5 over the 60 kids. Ds and other kids have had some issues with violence towards them. The 121 staff I'm not sure if they're able to control the kid they support. Is it usual for the needs in mainstream to be so heavy ?

Yes you can move and restrain chn. We have training to do so. Also can exclude(temporarily) SEN chn using school behaviour policy and have been told that by LA.

@43ontherocksporfavor yes - they can, and do, and are allowed to, sometimes the special school /centre offered is not appropriate for their child, but it is not common.

but parents don’t get money to homeschool

Didn’t say it was common, just letting OP know what I have experienced.

Children with SEN deserve an education, too. If special school is reserved for the "worst", then where should the middle kids go? I've seen some terrible special provision that was basically a dumping ground to get them out of everyone's way. Damn right parents might turn down provision that's worse than mainstream. Special school should be different, but not worse than, mainstream. That's the problem. Often a kid is better off in mainstream with 1-1, than in special with 1-3, and kids with much greater needs. The parents aren't going to prioritise your child over theirs, are they? They'll argue for the school that's best for their kid. And all children have a right to mainstream education if the parents want it, as it should be.

Mainstream should also be funded to have enough space and staff for that. But people keep voting Tory.

@43ontherocksporfavor "Some want to home school because they can get £6-8k pa to do so."

Pretty sure this isn't true.

Very common to have significant number of children with additional needs.

I've taught classes with 2 1-2-1 adults and there were other children with significant needs who would have benefited greatly from extra support but the statement (as was then) wasn't suitable/hadn't been granted yet. Generally classes of around 22 pupils. Mainstream.

Yes parents can reject special school places because funnily enough, not all special schools are the same and the one offered may not be suitable for an individual child. The LA just looks at bums on seats e.g. Will that school take them? Not whether it's a good fit.

Mostly the issue is no places at all.

There are no special schools in our area suitable for my ds.

No parents do not get cash to home educate their children. Most are classed as electively home educating so we get nothing.

Parents can apply for a personal budget but it can be very hard to get and even if granted goes towards things like OT or specific tutoring. Not cash in hand to go on a jolly.

Yes 1:1 is great but the physical surroundings aren’t always right. Special schools have equipment away and the day is geared towards the children and their additional needs. Mainstream can’t clear a room of scissors and pots of pens etc that can get thrown or used to harm , they don’t have budgets for padded rooms. They have glass doors and old buildings that have been extended and are not practical for some ‘difficult moments’.

It is very normal now and you are lucky there are adults supporting 1:1.
Even with 1:1 support, it is impossible to prevent all incidents. Sometimes it is possible to see when children are becoming disregulated and staff can take pre-emptive action and take children to quiet spaces, but it can also happen very quickly and staff have to react to what has happened.
I teach in a mainstream school and last year I had 6 neurodiverse children in my junior class (and one who should have a diagnosis but parents refused assessment). Two of them were very violent, I had the bruises to show. As others have said, parents are reluctant to accept they need to be in special school, and when they do, spaces are limited.
I also find that parents don't realise the challenges of the classroom, they often tiptoe around their children to avoid meltdowns - that is fine in a household, but not possible in a class of 30.
This year I don't have the violence in my class (though many of my colleagues do) but I still have high needs, including a non- verbal child in a junior classroom- they are very sweet, but completely unable to access a mainstream curriculum. Up until recently their parents refused to accept the should be in mainstream. They have finally realised, but there are no places for them.
I work in an 'outstanding' school in a leafy suburb, I think many parents would be surprised at the day to day reality in the classroom.

@CurlewKate I’m not lying.

Yes. DS goes to a mainstream with a high level of need because parents transfer into it due to its reputation. DS is one of them.

I'd say it's unusual (in a positive way) these days that SEN/EHCP pupils receive 1-1 support!

Yep. Sounds fairly normal these days I’m afraid. For some children having a 121 allows them to access the curriculum and is really supportive. Sadly for others it just means that there is someone to remove them from the class when they become too disruptive or violent.
On some occasions you end up having to evacuate the classroom to keep the rest of the children safe.

Don't forget that all these children are still expected to make the expected level of progress, even when a classmate is throwing chairs at their teacher. Even when that classmate is back in school the next day after assaulting staff. Even when that classmate is in their room destroying the classroom and their work while their teacher tries the best they can in the hall.

Sometimes the specialist provisions says that the child is too difficult for them so they won’t take them, so they stay in mainstream. Most of the time there simply isn’t room.

Please look closely at the election promises this year and ask your local candidates some serious questions.

When you're claiming parents get thousands to home educate?

Yeah you are.

Also the funding isn’t enough to pay a TA all day. We’ll get £3k or something so schools have to work out when the 1:1 is crucial and at other times they have nobody other than the teacher. Then try recruiting a TA for a few hrs a week! Who wants that job?

@startatthegin I know of two families that get that amount for their home schooled Sen chn.

@MadeOfAllWork your second paragraph you are absolutely spot on. It boils my blood when we are questioned about why x, y and z haven't made accelerated progress and why we don't have more children working at greater depth.

So many leaders (and dare I say, the big O) have completely lost touch with what it's actually like teaching in a classroom nowadays.

I only work two days. I'm lucky I have a choice. If I was offered one million pounds to go back full time, I honestly wouldn't.

No you don't. Show me a source, a government source, which offers that.

You're mistaken. You've misinterpreted a direct payment for something.

I can’t say anymore I’m afraid of divulging too much but it will happen more and more as special schools can’t take more children. Parents will be offered financial support to home school thus reducing the waiting list.

I've literally been in the home ed community all my life and I've never heard of anyone ever getting money for home schooling. I've known a couple of people who got specialised equipment, but never just money.

*It's a very grey area. Staff who are trained, registered as accredited to perform child restraints and work in ASN can use holds. Mainstream staff can only use a move of duty of care purposes otherwise its a common assault. Mainstream staff are not legally covered or permitted to do holds in my part of UK. There is ALOT of legislation here.
*
@PTSDBarbiegirl

No, you may have been misled by your school but it really isn't a grey area.

Staff should be correctly trained but all staff are legally allowed to:
Remove children who are disruptive and have refused to leave on their own.
Restrain children who are being violent to others (including staff)
Restrain children who are putting themselves in danger.

This report is very clear and straightforward.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819959ed915d74e6233224/UseoffreasonableforceeadviceRevieweddJuly2015.pdf

@43ontherocksporfavor what you're saying really doesn't happen in most LAs. The reality is that most children who need a special school place can't get one, most EHCPs aren't fully upheld, most SEND children don't get the support they need and deserve and parents of SEND children are at their wits' end trying to get the education their children need.

Yes, it's normal to have multiple children with high needs in every mainstream primary class. For every child with SEND that's got an EHCP in primary there will be several more still waiting on a diagnosis or even waiting for a referral. The stare of SEND education is dire, even worse than mainstream and that's bad enough.

There's no golden tickets or magic money tree for education just because your children has additional needs.

Just came on to say the same. Been home educating for 5 years and know lots of families with sen children and none of them receive anything let alone money.

The LA/government do not want to ‘encourage’ home educating but in reality a large proportion of parents who home ed are doing the job that schools failed at so should get paid!

I can only comment on my experience of this. Nothing to gain from lying. I haven’t said cash is given , just that funding has been paid.
Have also had two sets of parents that declined special school places. One eventually agreed on a place after several years and the other has removed the child after starting and put them back into the mainstream school.

This is for good reasons not just on a whim - in specialist my DS is not expected to do GCSEs and has no friends, despite being bright enough to do them and having made friends when in mainstream. We didn't want this to happen but were pressurised to accept a specialist place when no mainstream would take him.
There are no places for academic DCs with SEN and no concept they need to have friends and connection with their local community.

"I'm not lying but I can't provide any proof, evidence, government guidelines... omg I've said too much"
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