If you're a secondary school teacher

[LittleOrangePip]

Can you tell the difference between year 7s who have been to an academically strong primary vs those who haven't? Do you think it affects children long term?

Asking as we're trying to decide on a primary school for DD. Of the two local schools, one (school A) is very child led, uses "in the moment learning", seems lovely and all the parents rave about it but the KS2 results were below average in all areas (bad progress scores too, including for those who had been at the school long term). School B is basically the opposite: great SATs, but they work them hard even from reception, emphasise "stamina" (which seems to mean tolerance for sitting quietly at a table for long periods) and the discipline is pretty harsh.

What should we do?! The application needs to be in next week and we are still totally stumped 😭

Results are always skewed because you'll have DC of different ability

So you'll have DC doing amazingly and SEN struggling but all those results go in the pot as it were

So looking at any school that isn't selective you have to go by your gut instinct and listen to what you're hearing

And you are hearing that this school is good and parents love it.

Oh and as a secondary school teacher year 7s are mainly enthusiastic and level themselves out

But a decent primary will make them more confident and open to learning

I would choose school B personally if you have bright engaged DC

I would choose school A if my DC had SEN and were clearly not very academic

Not a teacher so not your target audience but as a parent I would choose school A without a doubt. School B sounds prety awful for primary aged children. There's more to life than academic results and being happy at school counts for a lot.

As a previous poster said confidence and enthusiasism are the main things that help in year 7 and it sounds like school A would be good at instilling both those traits.

Primary is the foundation for secondary, and it's really hard to close learning gaps once a child gets to secondary. I work with secondary students who struggle with learning, and for some of them the main reason is that their primary schooling was weak. It's a tough gig and I really feel for those kids.

It's so hard! @theveryhungrybum I went to a rubbish primary (worse than school A tbf) and still can't spell/do my times tables despite having 2 pretty good degrees 🙄

Good says can mean the kids are throughly prepped and set up for them, rather than being a reflection of better teaching. And not means kids can end up with falsely high results which means they will be given unrealistic and unachievable grade ranges for their GCSEs. Personally I would rather my child enjoyed school and had a positive attitude to school and learning so would choose school a. And I say that as a secondary school teacher.

I'm not a teacher, just a parent, but school B sounds horrible.

Thanks all 🙏

I chose our local "School A" for DS1 because all our local parent friends raved about it and it seemed wonderful when we looked round. And it was indeed lovely in reception and we patted ourselves on the back for choosing the right school. The following year he started getting very bored and restive, saying the class was always screaming, he was repeating a lot of stuff he felt he already knew and he hated not having a clear task to complete. While the teacher tried her best to differentiate, she was only able to do so much given the size of the class and the style of teaching.

We moved him to "School B" for Year 2 which was a much better match for him in terms of pace and direction from the teacher and he loved it from the start. He was assessed for ASD when younger, he doesn't have it but I do suspect that the additional structure not being "child led" and quieter classroom environment thanks to those longer enforced concentration times really suits him (and it's been no hardship for him at all to sit quietly working, he could do that easily without being coerced into it). He's now in Year 7 and cheerful, confident and academic.

I think you can choose either school but just keep re-assessing and see how they're getting on - so much depends on your particular DC and how it suits them. Child-led and relaxed in the moment learning works for lots of kids but doesn't work for everyone.

Thanks @Xiaoxiong that's interesting. Really glad to hear your son is happy and doing well now. We actually just had a meeting with DD's nursery, and while they didn't say anything against the more child led school, they did comment that DD has a decent attention span and likes to have a clear task set out for her, which I wasn't really expecting them to say tbh 😂

School B every time. Child-centred learning is not a good idea imo when they are primary age.

@Papyrophile what makes you say that? Most people seem to have the opposite view!

20+ years as a teacher. A child who is focussed will usually catch up. We get kids with lower SATs results who end up with higher GCSEs that those with all 5s. My DS was like this, 3/4 in SATs to straight A at A level.

I would choose school A. Kids have enough time for stamina based lives as adults.

But remember- you have two pretty good degrees.

unless you have a massively academic child, I’d go for the school that seems to have the best atmosphere. Both of mine are on the SEN register and having them in a less pushy (but still decent) primary that has a big emphasis on social skills has been a godsend.

times tables can be learnt via a TT rockstars subscription!

@LittleOrangePip I tend to think most kids do better with a bit more structure and direction after Nursery/Reception/Y1. Concentration is a learned skill, so while it needs to come in smallish chunks in the EYs, there needs to be an appreciation that the adults are in charge and the child follows instructions: that shouldn't mean it's harsh or not fun. It makes classrooms more purposeful. This is not to minimise the importance of social skills and enjoyment. I also believe manners and kindness should be modelled.

DC was very seriously dyslexic and struggled with all written subjects and concentration, unless interested in the topic. Little and often and gently worked eventually but I gained enormous respect for structure, repetition and routine home schooling whilst travelling.

My child seems to be doing just fine at Oxford with complex SEN. Maybe check your bigotry.

@sprigatito any thoughts on what school would be best for a bright kids with SEN? I'm pretty sure my daughter is "bright" (although probably not a genius 😬) but I have a sneaking suspicion she may turn out to have ADHD (mainly because both her father and I do)

If she does have ADHD, then I think harsh discipline and sitting still for long periods of time are likely to be things she will struggle with much more than a NT kid. At primary school age, all the evidence shows that parents have more influence on a child's academic outcomes than the school so that doesn't actually matter that much. If you think school B has "pretty harsh" discipline, that suggests that you don't really approve of it.