Would most people choose private education if they could afford it

[mids2019]

My children go to reasonable state schools but especially from my older daughter I keep hearing about a succession of cover teachers and general malaise in the school system (governments fault not the schools)

That for me asking the question would most people choose private education if affordable in their heart of hearts or are there egalitarian parents who would still choose state on ideological grounds?

I am in two minds about this but certainly the private sector locally is attracting quite a few.

@AgnestaVipers i agree with much of what you say. And I’m not saying all private school teachers are deskilled, nor am I saying all state school teachers are skilled! It’s not a decision I will ever have to make, realistically. But I am still, at heart, idealistically opposed to private education. As an individual teacher I have chosen to specialise in state education and particularly in trying to raise aspirations and make sure kids enjoy my lessons. It is something I will wrangle with more as my son is on the asd and will strggle massively in mainstream secondary. His primary have been absolutely amazing and I know he has benefitted massively from their excellent input (state academy, part of the oasis chain).

We were state all the way until our DC was being bullied so badly that they were being attacked in the playground, wanted to self harm and ran away from home - in primary school! We tried and tried to work with the school to no avail - they denied it was happening, sat our DC next to their bully etc etc until eventually when the injuries were too noticeable they couldn’t deny it - and then STILL did nothing except admit it was happening. In a way their hands were tied due to too many SEN kids with too little funding to give them the support they needed in class but their attitude to it all was disgusting. And that’s before we even address the lack of academic teaching in class (also based on above disruption) leaving our DC along with other bright children trailing behind.

We pulled our DC out and went private (no other local state schools had places) and haven’t looked back. Provision, support and academic are worlds apart apart.

oh, and the state schools in our area - top in country, outstanding OFSTED, people move into the expensive area to try gets places etc etc….

Nah, not on your nelly.
Just imagine, your children would have to mix with poshos. Not only that, the chances are many of the parents vote Tory.
Can you imagine exposing one’s little darlings that that?

I think that very bright children who are keen to learn will do well in most schools. Very bright children in academically selective private or grammar will fly. Where private schools are brilliant is for those academically average children who might otherwise “coast” and get a handful of Bs and Cs at GCSE. A private school will not be satisfied with that if they believe they’re capable of more, plus being with pupils who are motivated does rub off.
My big regret is not sending my DC to private primary. I think it provides a really strong academic foundation. My DD was initially in private primary and the teachers remarked on how academic and motivated she was. For a variety of reasons we moved to an outstanding state where she dropped to average. Doing ok in secondary , but I feel she is missing some solid background ( and I was too naive to think that other than reading and times tables I should be doing work with her).
So yes to private( and there are lots of “ordinary” kids at private school ( very much three bed semi types). Don’t confuse Eton with the local indie.

Do peoples views change with age? Possibly in my twenties I would have been politically firmly against private schools. However experience of life has tempered my views and what was an ideological anathema is now something that seems to have a place in what is in effect an unlevel playing field with no one with a roller. I can't beat the system so I join it.

No. They wouldn’t want my youngest anyway as he has special needs. My eldest is a high achiever and has had 5 As at higher and so couldn’t have performed better in a private school so it would have been a waste of money.

Why can't state parents get their own elbows out anyway.

WinterdeWinter, yes, why can’t state parents use sharp elbows? Are they in some way inferior to private school parents?
Privately educated children are apparently entitled and close-minded yet their parents would be able to turn round state schools.

I think views change with experience, not necessarily age. As per my post, it was a dreadful experience in state that changed our view.

@aliceinanwonderland

I agree with this. My children are reasonably intelligent (I hope) but they can (and possibly will) coast. The secondary school doesn't have a great motivation to push kids above say a 7at GCSE; once you're working at that level it's job done.

I wonder if that little bit of additional am completion of a more intense environment can bring out the best from pupils? It's a competitive world and I don't think you can entirely separate competition from an educational environment IMO.

You also seen to have some kids actively looking to pick on the 'nerds' and I think my daughter is quite wary about sticking her head above the parapet academically (this wasn't a trait in primary).

Only if our local state secondaries were unsafe or inadequate, but they are neither.

I think views change with experience, not necessarily age. As per my post, it was a dreadful experience in state that changed our view
Agree with this. Experiences make a difference.
I've worked in some brilliant state schools, middle of the road and poor quality state schools and have seen children miss out for different reasons in all of them. It's those experiences that changed my mind to be more open minded and realise the majority of parents who choose to use private education are middle of the road families in professional jobs, who are fortunate to be in a place to cut back in other areas for something that matters to them. They're not the super wealthy people with a spare £40,000 a year to burn on top independent schools.

Why are people continually spouting that private school kids won't have a well rounded view of society?

Lol. Possibly:
For the same reasons people ‘spout’ about state school students being less keen to learn
And assuming that bullying does not happen in private schools

i. E prejudice / supposition.

And because to a certain extent it is true.

Private schools are bubbles and intended to be bubbles. Look at many of the reasons MNers cite for choosing them. I went to a private school. I did loads of community based sport, but had a rude awakening to the kind of opinions more common in the world outside when I went to Uni.

Also my state educated Dc were horrified by the attitudes and behaviour amongst the privately educated (and especially single sec boys educated) who joined their well regarded state 6th form.

And because the behaviour and attitudes on the shared routes from the Dulwich Preps and the closest comprehensive includes boys chanting ‘peasants’.

I would home educate and use the money for private school fees on tutors and exam fees.

@jobwantednotneeded
True. But the state school kids who go to after school clubs have motivated parents, who are not living on the breadline, they are not carers, or from families who simply do not have the means or resources to take them. It's still not the breadth of society we live in

If I were not home educating then absolutely. State schools in my area are screwed. Very few have more than 60% reaching the "expected standard" by the end of primary, and I'd want to give my kids the best chances. Schools around me also have massive issues with retaining teachers, high schools lack specialists, primaries routinely have numerous classes in a hall with a few TAs as there are not teachers to have them in classes, SEN provision is dire so that impacts whole classes, and so on. Though admittedly the school in the small town I've just moved to is quite good, so I'd consider it if I felt my kids could manage the class sizes. If I lived elsewhere I'd feel differently.

I could-and I didn't.

Yes, I think most would choose a private education IF it was genuinely affordable to them, and still maintained a clear and attractive differentiation. Most people would choose the best education for their children. However, that's a theoretical scenario that I don't think would/could ever exist though.

I'm firmly ideologically convinced that the right to an independent education, an education free of government control of content and financing, is an essential cornerstone of a free society.

We have experience of both state and independent education, from multiple angles. Contrary to the popular narrative, one of the things I value most about the education at an independent school is the exposure to a broader cross-section of society. This is usually a claim made about state education, but it's based on a narrow view of a "broad cross-section of society" as meaning only including the economic mainstream.

We could probably afford it if we made other sacrifices, but I would never send my kids to private school. I was a teacher in the state sector and believe that equal access to education is a fundamental right.

Even if I didn't have moral objections to the principle of buying a better education, it's not a lifestyle I'd want for my child. We wouldn't be able to afford all the expensive extras that many of their peers would have and we live in a relatively small house. I want my child to appreciate how fortunate we are to have what we have, not take it for granted or even think it lacking on it compared to their peers.

The only time I'd consider it is if my child had SEN that only a private school could handle. But my experience is that private schools actually aren't very good at handling those things anyway.

Not in the place I live.
There is zero difference in the local secondary and the private school.
Apart from the appalling reputation it has for bullying. For misogyny. For covering up pupils dealing drugs. For accepting funding from a well known local family to help keep a non insured pupil out of jail following a car crash.
The private school that is.
No thanks. Its a shithole of entitlement.

I feel ideologically opposed on some levels but also - both my parents were privately educated as was I, partially.
I could not have afforded private schools for my kids but I did move to an area with good state schools.
So I don't feel any of these decisions are easy and I don't want to judge others.
It is clear though that if you really want your child to run something big then send them to Westminster, Eton, Oxbridge (if you can manage it) and they have a far higher probability of being in charge of what they do as that's the point of these institutions; they were built to run an empire.
But schools fail so many kids for so many complex reasons - I don't blame the schools.I just wish we could invest far more in our state system as we would all benefit. Also some state schools are clearly better than some private ones. But it's hard to judge 'better' as it's whether it suits your child or not.

Most people would choose the best education?
Well of course. What that got to do with it? Private isn't always best.

No. We could afford it having only 1 child. We chose the school we thought he would be happy at which was state. He was/is very bright, achieved 12xA star GCSE's, 4 x A star A levels and a first from Oxford. And he was happy. The bonus is that we put his yearly fees into an ISA and he now has a substantial house deposit.
I asked him if he wishes he had gone to the (very academic) private school and he said no. He feels his education at a state school benefited him in that he mixed with a very broad range of people.

I think that very bright children who are keen to learn will do well in most schools.

I think the above used to be true, but not so much now. The behaviour in classrooms can be shocking - I really don’t think the public knows the reality.

I went to private and DH went to grammar. I taught in inner city schools for 15 years. I was concerned my quiet, sensitive and well-behaved DCs would go under the radar in the local leafy-ish comp with 1500 students. I was so adamant that my kids were not going to state school because I wanted to provide them with what I’d experienced. No way could we afford it so we have now moved abroad - 90% of the reason we did this was for education and we don’t have to pay fees. I know not everyone can do this but this was available to me and I moved heaven and earth to do it. My kids came out of their shells within a few months. My youngest child used to say she didn’t want to go to school every day. She never says it now.

This is my experience. Everyone is different.

I would prefer my kids to go to a mixed state school as I went to a private girls' school and man, a lot of those girls were spoilt biatches.

In reality, we'll probably just decide what the best option is for each child when they reach 11. They're at a state primary at the moment and we're more than happy with it.

We could afford it but prefer to spend the money on other things. (Extra holidays, long term savings etc).

But our local schools are all good.

It would be very frowned upon in my social circle as most people I know are on the centre left.