Page 2 | Primary schools struggle

BhamAnon · 2023-12-28T05:48:59+00:00

Hi all Sorry as I imagine similar questions have been asked a lot. We are currently struggling picking our first choice school with the deadline heading nearer The obvious choice is a ten min walk, gets great KS2 results, outstanding ofsted (albeit old report but I imagine it’ll retain it). The school building is a quite old but they are going to build a new one (however this could also cause disruption if it all happens while he’s at school I imagine). I know parents with their kids there who love it. It did come across a little bit snobby. Second is a Catholic school, and about a ten minute drive. It was outstanding ofsted but just got downgraded to good a couple of months ago (however it appears ofsted are looking to downgrade most outstanding schools , the two reasons it only got ‘good’ instead was of outstanding were not important for us). KS2 results were good but not as good as option 1. However class room sizes were a lot smaller which we liked. The teachers had a very warm and loving atmosphere to them and the school was only recently rebuilt in the last few years so very modern and impressive. Having to drive and park for 7 years does feel like a big factor though, maybe it shouldn’t. We’ve had a long time to decide but still not there yet , feels so hard to push the button. What are your thoughts?

bowtop · 28/12/2023 10:24

Also consider that a smaller class size means less choice for friendships too. I went to a Catholic primary (Catholic family) there were 17 children in my year and 11 of them were boys, that left 5 girls for friendships. None of them were my best friend it was just convenient and no one lived close by because of where everyone came from for this Catholic school.

Whereas your nearest school will have more friend options, walking is brilliant just invest in an umbrella, waterproof trousers and coats and wellies to deal with the weather, change them out of the waterproof bottom half when they get to school.

Definitely put the nearest school as first choice. Locally to us one school was due a rebuild and it is now a stunning state of the art place, went from Requires Improvement to Outstanding in a short space of time.

Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 10:26

bowtop · 28/12/2023 10:24

Also consider that a smaller class size means less choice for friendships too. I went to a Catholic primary (Catholic family) there were 17 children in my year and 11 of them were boys, that left 5 girls for friendships. None of them were my best friend it was just convenient and no one lived close by because of where everyone came from for this Catholic school.

Whereas your nearest school will have more friend options, walking is brilliant just invest in an umbrella, waterproof trousers and coats and wellies to deal with the weather, change them out of the waterproof bottom half when they get to school.

Definitely put the nearest school as first choice. Locally to us one school was due a rebuild and it is now a stunning state of the art place, went from Requires Improvement to Outstanding in a short space of time.

They are very valid points too. I am starting to lean towards the first school now, this forum is becoming very useful to me. Thank you

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crumblingschools · 28/12/2023 10:33

Governor minutes should either be available on the school website or can be asked for. Might be an idea to see if you can look at them to see if there is any discussion about school rebuild and timeframe.

bowtop · 28/12/2023 10:35

@BhamAnon this is where MN is at its best, supportive, informative and lots of opinions and experiences. There are specific education boards for primary, secondary etc and you can name change if you want and ask about specific schools too.

I am assuming confession and first holy communion is important to you so I would speak to your church about how they can facilitate that if you don't go to a Catholic primary. This obviously depends on what your priest is like and how supportive they would be about it. CofE schools teach around 70% Christianity for their faith topics and they cover other religions too. The biggest influence on a child is still the home and their parents. In school they should learn Hindus believe, Christians believe, Sikhs believe rather than the Catholic school which usually only teaches the Catholic faith. My children went to a CofE school which took into account children in the class and their faiths.

KingscoteStaff · 28/12/2023 10:37

@BhamAnon I teach at a very popular Primary School, but in central London where there’s a lot of movement of families. We’ve had a couple of years with spaces in the older classes - we’re talking 27 or 28 - and the difference in our funding is really clear. I’m spending my Auntie’s Christmas Amazon voucher on Pritt sticks!!

JollyJellyCat · 28/12/2023 10:39

Round here the Catholic primary schools receive huge financial backing from the Church, have amazing facilities, recently rebuilt, tablets for every child, latest phonics systems etc etc. Despite having 9-10 children per year. So funding may not be so much of a consideration but obviously varies between areas.

We drive and park and its a hassle. But worth it if you feel strongly that the further school is the right one.

Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 10:50

bowtop · 28/12/2023 10:35

@BhamAnon this is where MN is at its best, supportive, informative and lots of opinions and experiences. There are specific education boards for primary, secondary etc and you can name change if you want and ask about specific schools too.

I am assuming confession and first holy communion is important to you so I would speak to your church about how they can facilitate that if you don't go to a Catholic primary. This obviously depends on what your priest is like and how supportive they would be about it. CofE schools teach around 70% Christianity for their faith topics and they cover other religions too. The biggest influence on a child is still the home and their parents. In school they should learn Hindus believe, Christians believe, Sikhs believe rather than the Catholic school which usually only teaches the Catholic faith. My children went to a CofE school which took into account children in the class and their faiths.

Definitely. My first time posting here but I can see how useful it is already. Thanks . It’s true, I am sure my parish could help with communion and confirmation too

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Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 10:51

KingscoteStaff · 28/12/2023 10:37

@BhamAnon I teach at a very popular Primary School, but in central London where there’s a lot of movement of families. We’ve had a couple of years with spaces in the older classes - we’re talking 27 or 28 - and the difference in our funding is really clear. I’m spending my Auntie’s Christmas Amazon voucher on Pritt sticks!!

Oh dear! I have heard friends saying their schools are reliant on parents to a large degree. It wasn’t something I really expected but a sign of the times I guess

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Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 10:52

JollyJellyCat · 28/12/2023 10:39

Round here the Catholic primary schools receive huge financial backing from the Church, have amazing facilities, recently rebuilt, tablets for every child, latest phonics systems etc etc. Despite having 9-10 children per year. So funding may not be so much of a consideration but obviously varies between areas.

We drive and park and its a hassle. But worth it if you feel strongly that the further school is the right one.

Maybe that’s the case re church funding, didn’t consider it. Everything really was state of the art in terms of IT department, playground etc. It was the reason it didn’t cross my mind re funding so I’d have to look into it to make sure they’re ok. It did leave the best impression on us when we left the open days

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crumblingschools · 28/12/2023 10:58

@JollyJellyCat where is that?

JollyJellyCat · 28/12/2023 11:04

@crumblingschools North East England (although some of their secondary schools are indeed crumbling)

CoffeeWithCheese · 28/12/2023 11:12

crumblingschools · 28/12/2023 10:33

Governor minutes should either be available on the school website or can be asked for. Might be an idea to see if you can look at them to see if there is any discussion about school rebuild and timeframe.

This. DD1 has just started secondary and we had a choice between a shiny new huge school (with some issues known for bullying and shitty SEN provision but apparently great for academic high fliers which DD is) and a very very tatty couple of smaller schools with slightly less stellar results but a good reputation for pastoral care and SEN support.

I asked for clarification how far along the new build line they were, and what the plans were for minimising disruption while it was being built - basically they're going to flip the site around, build the new school at the currently empty end of it, and then demolish the old building - so day to day disruption shouldn't be that bad. We went for the tatty older smaller school and they've been brilliant in terms of support for DD (who is academically very bright but socially struggles - waiting for an ASD assessment - she would have easily been left to flounder in a bigger place).

Likewise their primary was tiny and heavily heavily listed - and they needed to refurbish the building a few years ago - the solution they had was to rent an old school building a short walk away (our area has lots of infants and junior schools that have merged onto one site leaving empty school buildings that are gradually being sold off) and run a walking bus staffed by the school TAs between the proper school site and the temporary school site for the year.

As long as the planning's in place and it's moved beyond some pretty drawings - it wouldn't personally concern me too much.

Driving and parking gets to be a real pain in the arse (we do it and it's not fun) - even more so if you have a second child with a bit of an age gap so you've got a few years of having to do it for two different schools (mine are only 1 year apart thankfully so it's minimal for us).

crumblingschools · 28/12/2023 11:15

@JollyJellyCat I thought most church schools were state funded and then some, depending on their constitution, have to contribute via the Church 10% of capital costs.

Biscuitsneeded · 28/12/2023 11:20

I would agree with the poster who says unless the nearest school is actually falling down, go there. One of the best things about a primary school you can walk to is being part of your local community. You can easily do playdates after school, or another parent can pick your child up for you and vice versa, and you can make friends locally if you get involved in primary school events. Going to school further away and not living near schoolfriends is a big drawback. In addition, small class sizes can be quite socially limiting - far better to have a big year group to choose from. I'd also be worried about composite classes if the numbers are low.

CoffeeWithCheese · 28/12/2023 11:27

Biscuitsneeded · 28/12/2023 11:20

I would agree with the poster who says unless the nearest school is actually falling down, go there. One of the best things about a primary school you can walk to is being part of your local community. You can easily do playdates after school, or another parent can pick your child up for you and vice versa, and you can make friends locally if you get involved in primary school events. Going to school further away and not living near schoolfriends is a big drawback. In addition, small class sizes can be quite socially limiting - far better to have a big year group to choose from. I'd also be worried about composite classes if the numbers are low.

Actually moving to composite classes really benefitted my kids. The eldest got over her mental block that she "wasn't good at maths" (after they returned to school post-lockdowns and couldn't do half the content on the test school gave them - because they hadn't been taught it due to the school being closed... lockdown number 1 where the curriculum was suspended before anyone starts) - when she was in a year 5/6 class and realised she could do the y6 maths content better than lots of the y6 kids in the class!

Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 11:38

crumblingschools · 28/12/2023 10:33

Governor minutes should either be available on the school website or can be asked for. Might be an idea to see if you can look at them to see if there is any discussion about school rebuild and timeframe.

Thank you, I’ll have a look

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Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 11:38

Biscuitsneeded · 28/12/2023 11:20

I would agree with the poster who says unless the nearest school is actually falling down, go there. One of the best things about a primary school you can walk to is being part of your local community. You can easily do playdates after school, or another parent can pick your child up for you and vice versa, and you can make friends locally if you get involved in primary school events. Going to school further away and not living near schoolfriends is a big drawback. In addition, small class sizes can be quite socially limiting - far better to have a big year group to choose from. I'd also be worried about composite classes if the numbers are low.

Fair points, a lot of the reasons why I’m veering towards the local option 1 now

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Original poster

BhamAnon · 28/12/2023 11:39

CoffeeWithCheese · 28/12/2023 11:12

This. DD1 has just started secondary and we had a choice between a shiny new huge school (with some issues known for bullying and shitty SEN provision but apparently great for academic high fliers which DD is) and a very very tatty couple of smaller schools with slightly less stellar results but a good reputation for pastoral care and SEN support.

I asked for clarification how far along the new build line they were, and what the plans were for minimising disruption while it was being built - basically they're going to flip the site around, build the new school at the currently empty end of it, and then demolish the old building - so day to day disruption shouldn't be that bad. We went for the tatty older smaller school and they've been brilliant in terms of support for DD (who is academically very bright but socially struggles - waiting for an ASD assessment - she would have easily been left to flounder in a bigger place).

Likewise their primary was tiny and heavily heavily listed - and they needed to refurbish the building a few years ago - the solution they had was to rent an old school building a short walk away (our area has lots of infants and junior schools that have merged onto one site leaving empty school buildings that are gradually being sold off) and run a walking bus staffed by the school TAs between the proper school site and the temporary school site for the year.

As long as the planning's in place and it's moved beyond some pretty drawings - it wouldn't personally concern me too much.

Driving and parking gets to be a real pain in the arse (we do it and it's not fun) - even more so if you have a second child with a bit of an age gap so you've got a few years of having to do it for two different schools (mine are only 1 year apart thankfully so it's minimal for us).

Show quote history

They have the funding in place and a contractor picked out, so hopefully it’s relatively legit.

the current buildings aren’t awful, but just felt quite old compared to expectation, so it wouldn’t be too awful if it fell through for whatever reasons too

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Biscuitsneeded · 28/12/2023 11:51

I can't comment on composite classes academically, @CoffeeWithCheese , but I do know that my friend's son struggled socially because he made a set of friends each year and then wasn't in class with them the following year. He's a very adaptable boy but socially I think they are far from ideal.

Original poster

BhamAnon · 29/12/2023 08:10

Hi everyone

Just incase anyone happens to stumble across this thread again.

We decided to go for the first school, walking distance. I think the convenience for 7 years and a lot of the reasons people noted here helped with the decision making.

It was rated outstanding by Ofsted and gets very good KS2 results, so in a lot of ways was a nice problem to have. The Catholic school having smaller classroom sizes so the possibility of less friends was a concern too.

We are hoping their new school build does happen sooner rather than later, but it’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t.

I can look into my son receiving communion and confirmation outside of the school.

Thanks all, was a very difficult decision but we are there now.

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