Horrible teacher

[janh]

Advice, please, clever ladies. This situation is not earth-shatteringly important but I am just so pissed off about it.

DS2 is in Y5 now. The teachers he had in Reception, Y1, Y2 and now in Y5 have all thought he is great - eager, pleasant, hard-working, rewarding to teach and nice to have around (talks too much and fidgets but, hey, he's a boy.)

His Y3 teacher wasn't a great success but she took over in the January from one he liked a lot. His Y4 teacher just plain didn't like him - I think I mentioned once that at his spring term parent's evening all she did was whine about him (fidgetting, talking etc - not a good word for him.) (So she didn't get an end of term present from us - maybe this is where I've gone wrong )

The problem is that she takes choir. Now he loves singing, is always singing around the house, but inevitably still fidgets and occasionally whispers and she is always on him like a ton of bricks.

At rehearsal tonight they had been told to sit down. Most of them, including him, sat down but the boy next to him didn't so he said "sit down". He has an ENORMOUS brace which makes him lisp and it came out like "shit down" - but wasn't. Anyway later on somebody was reported to have been swearing and the boy DS said "sit down" to - a proper little goody-goody-teacher's-pet anyway - went "oh, Mrs Thing, so-and-so swore too, he said the SH word." So DS got bollocked (scuse me) and when he tried to explain about the brace he got "don't answer me back".

Needless to say I am seething but am not sure what to do. She is entitled not to like him, but not to treat him like a badly behaved little oik, which is what she has done since she first encountered him. (DS1 was in the choir, she took over from a teacher he really liked, 1 session with her and he left, I suspect DS2 has been tarred with his brush) (DS1 was NOT a good boy!)

I am tempted to complain to the head. I don't think there is any percentage in complaining to her. He would be happy to leave the choir as he is sick of being constantly jumped on (she does jump on others too - mostly boys - girls get away with things boys don't) but I think it would be a shame and an injustice - she should not behave like this. I know she is giving up her own time but if she resents it so much maybe she is in the wrong job - primary school teachers have to do this kind of thing, don't they?

HELP!

Is it church choir? School choir? For goodness sake, if she really knew anything about vocal music she should be fawning all over these little boys and offering them chocolate not to leave. Cathedrals all over the UK are crying out for boys who love singing, like your ds2. And how awful to have a miserable person involved with such a joyous and liberating pursuit.
I know from wearing braces as a child that they can be an embarrassing encumbrance and their wearers should be treated sensitively, not wilfully misunderstood. Gggggrrrr.
Do complain to the head, Janh, I'd do the same. But if your son really likes singing, hoick him out of that choir before she ruins it for him for good. If you possibly can, get him into another nearby. How unprofessional of her!

janh, I'm seething on your behalf, this sounds so sad for your ds. Absolutely agree with Marina: singing should be a joyous pursuit and if she doesn't enjoy it or convey any pleasure to her singers, what is the point? I would be tempted to be quite heavy handed re the brace thing and swearing etc, sounds totally unfair. But hey, you want constructive advice so I'd go with ks' suggestion of trying to talk to her (if you think she would listen) first, and then trying the head if you get no joy. So what if ds1 was not a good boy, she shouldn't assume the same of ds2, where is her professionalism? It would be good to have Bayleaf's perspective here I think as a teacher.
Is there another choir he can go to? Could you ask to sit in on the practice sometime to see what you think? Let us know what you decide and FWIW I'd be pissed off too.

ohh I am angry for you janh. FWIW What I would do is this: ask to see the problem teacher. Be really really nice and smiley. bGo through the sequence of events in detail and ask her of if this version of events could be correct - if not, what happened according to her.

Hear her out and clarify any points. Then really nicely, say how well behaved the girls in the choir seem to be - and most of the boys. Listen closely to what she says in answer here and draw her out as much as possible. Keep nodding in agreement, even if you are seething underneath. The idea is to see it she favours some children over others - or not.

Then get specific - say that acccording to your son the reason (braces causing lisp) was ignored by her - ask if this was so, and did she already know he has problems speaking clearly?

Also, most importantly, ask her if she herself heard your ds say the s**t word? If not, what made her take another boy's word as gospel truth? nicely persist in getting an answer to this!!!!

My ds was in tears today when I met him at cubs, long story but similar to yours - goody goody boys getting him into trouble, or igoring him - I am now thinking of taking him out of cubs for a while since him being upset, in his case, means he behaves less well than he should.

I agree with marina - if he likes singing, look for another choir if things don't improve with this teacher. Put her right under the spotlight, in the nicest possible way, and hopefully you should see whether she's prejudiced a) against boys or b) even worse for you, against your son in particular.

After your meeting, depending on how it has gone, think about meeting with his class teacher and/or the head. His class teacher will, I suppose, be attuned to his speech difficulties so she could be a good person to have in the meeting.

Nothing to add in the way of advice but I agree that this teacher's behaviour just isn't on. What an example to set to set children, apart from anything else. Good luck!

I would go to the teacher first, and then if things still don't get better make an appointment to see the head. The teacher may not realise what is happeninh, and remember things always seem worse to chidlren.

Also remeber its the near the end of term - children and teachers get tired and cross. And yes you do have to deal with this type of thing, but she may think I am giving up my spare time to run this chior and I will not have it ruinned by naughty boys.

I am just putting the teachers view accross (I am a primary teacher who is tired and cross, but its nearly the end of term - HORRAH)

cazzybabs, valid point, except that this one is like it all the time! My DS is not particularly naughty - I know I would say that, but I have never had any complaints except from this teacher. (I have a friend who teaches part-time at this school and she has found this teacher, and another, very inclined to gang up and tell tales on her too. Not very mature.)

ks, sorry to hear your problem is still not sorted out, hope it will be soon.

Thanks, all of you, you have said more or less what I have been thinking - tigermoth, could you just pop up the M6 on Monday and come with me???? Your script is just what I would like to say but I always get so heart-thumpingly stressed before confrontations I forget what I want to say (and whipping out a written script wouldn't be too impressive!)

I think I will go and see her and ask for her version of what happened this week (it is a school choir, when I said "tonight" I meant after-school rehearsal) and if she confirms what DS said I will, as tigermoth suggests, ask if she actually heard him use any bad words (and if she has ever heard him use them) and, if not, why she took the other child's word. (Forgot to mention that other child is nephew of other Y3/4 teacher....) (Couldn't go today, had to take DS off to Grandma's in high excitement straight after school, ready for trip to Manchester city centre tomorrow!)

tigermoth, sorry to hear about your son's experiences at cubs, I think yours and mine have quite a lot in common!

The only other choirs around here are church choirs and a bit po-faced. Most kids tend to only sing at primary school, as it becomes terribly uncool at secondary stage - the teacher who used to take our school choir, before she retired, made it FUN, which is what it should be, as you have all pointed out, singing should be a joyful thing, not a stand-still-or-I-will-shout-at-you thing.

If things get sticky I will have a word with his class teacher who seems to be very down-to-earth and sensible.

Thanks again!

Janh, have you had your talk yet, how did it go?

ps - glad you liked the script. Don't know how much use I'd have been in your neck of the M6 - what I intend to say, and what I do say, are often two different things.

tigermoth, thanks for enquiry, have to confess that I have so far bottled out of confrontation....I was working up to it on Monday and my heart was pounding so badly I just couldn't do it.

However there is a Christmas "Fayre" in school on Friday, we will be going to that so I will speak to somebody. Not sure who just yet. Bossy teacher is still yelling at Y5 boys in general and,apparently, DS2 in particular. (But, also, he was particularly miffed today when a Y5/6 class was rehearsing its song for the concert, the girls sang v quietly and got a thumbs up, the boys were louder but got a "louder! louder!" flap.)

Cazzybabs sorry BUT "remember it's nearly the end of term"!! Thousands upon thousands of people work all year round and do not get a break from children or whoever they communicate with during the course of their work. I see this as a pitiful excuse for shouting at a child who can't shout back. Shouting doesn't do any good being fair does and it takes a big person to admit when they are wrong so...
Janh I think you should speak (calmly, no shouting!) directly to the teacher in the first place and if not satisfied then take it further why should this person make what should be the happiest time of your childs life a misery???? As Marina writes the teacher should be encouraging the boys and girls not driving them away especially from something they enjoy.

good luck for friday then, janh. Hope your son has a good end to his week - mine is feeling a bit victimised too, which is unusual for him. I am trying to talk to other mothers of boys in his class to get a better feel about what's going on.

But Janh, as an accomplished conductor surely she was just trying to get the acoustic balance right...
Good luck on Friday, however you decide to play it. Let us know how you get on!

Have to confess yet again that I haven't done anything - DS2 came home from school on Friday and said he didn't want to go to the Christmas Fayre after all (does anybody else find that girls are much keener on activities like this than boys are?) and when I said "but I was going to speak to Mrs Thing" he said oh, never mind, it doesn't really matter.

!!!!

Actually I have always found with him that his attitude to situations can be really easily adjusted, in either direction - if I leap to his defence when he's sorry for himself the face gets longer and the lip wobbles, but if I am brisk and matter-of-fact he switches it off and forgets all about it. Since the brace/lisp incident he has arrived home with a couple more accounts of her silliness (like the "acoustic balance" one, Marina!) but as we have discussed her foibles and agreed that being as invisible as possible is the best policy he is quite philosophical about her now.

It is still a shame that she doesn't make it all more fun for them but it's her loss mostly. And I still intend to have a word with his class teacher. Thanks all for your moral support anyway!

tigermoth, how are things going with your little lad, have you found anything out from the other mums? Hope it's just end-of-term-itis and nothing too bad. It is depressing when they come home sad.

oh janh, I can imagine why you didn't. Scary! Hope your ds is ok and still singing. Let us know how it goes with his form teacher.

Ho hum, sorry to hear this Janh - but I think if he didn't want you to go wading in, you definitely did the right thing. And I guess it does help children to learn (preferably with a wise adult close by to explain and comfort) that some adults require careful handling and cannot be relied on to be fair or even favourably inclined towards you. Good job he's got his mum to reassure him it's not HIM with the problem.
Such a shame, as you say, when they come home a little sad. It IS a long term, I always find, and children and carers (and college librarians ) are pretty jaded by now.
Let's just hope that when he is packing them in at La Scala he remembers to give her due respect on This is Your Life...
What news from Tigermoth? Hope Plaster Cast Boy is feeling a bit more cheery this week.

Hi janh, agree with your theory that girls more than boys are into schoonl events. I have to literally drag my son to anything that includes fancy dress or the worst, a disco, and so often don't bother now. He was OK about the school fair though - they had fake beyblades on sale.

I have also have seen how my son's reactions to a school situation can reflect mine. Sometimes, though, his reactions are definitely all his own!!

sorry to hear your son is still suffering with the choir teacher, but can quite understand why you are leaving it. As Marina says, at some point children learn that not all adults are unfailingly easy and fair. Keeping your head down is, imo, probably the most useful tactic to adopt. I advise my son to use this so many times.

He thinks children in his class deliberately wind him up, talk to him, etc, then grass him up to the teacher, who takes their word against his. I am trying to ascertain how true this is.

His teacher is not in the horrible category but is certainly stressed - she looks dreadfully under pressure, has done all term, and has been sick for quite a few days as well, rushes me out of the classroom if I ever go up to ie see a picture my son has on the wall - which is not more than once every week or two. I'n trying to ask a few parents about her - she seems very nice but not very happy.

As for the children, there are definitely tell tales in his class - I have seen this on school trips - but then as I say to my son, they wouldn't tell tales if there was nothing to tell, so keep your head down!!!! He is his own worst enemy - a tell tale girl gave him a christmas card yesterday which he promplty tore up in front of her. She told the teacher (three of them in fact, made a very big thing of it), and of course my son was told off, as he should have been. He was rude.

As we said to him later, accept the card but, if you must, tear it up in secret if this girl is a tell tale you gave her a perfect excuse to get you into trouble. And he's got to accept at least another 20 cards from classmates this week ahhhh...I am speaking to his class teacher about this episode today.

So we are dragging ourselves towards the end of this long term, mood variable, looking forward to christmas, and no school, very much.

Thanks for comforting words, www & Marina! (Not sure about La Scala though - this morning he was singing "how much is that snakey in the window, the one with the very long tail"!!!)

Oh, tigermoth, I do sympathise, have been there with both my boys. The Christmas card situation is classic - children's relationships are so volatile - you have to admire your DS for his strength of character (even though, yes, it was a bit rude!), he probably thinks of her as a non-friend so why should he take a card from her, but she probably thinks of him as a friend and telling tales on him just something she does. Anyway I hope he has taken the diplomacy advice on board. He will get there eventually!

He might well be right about them winding him up deliberately, the degree of manipulation they are capable of is astounding, and of course they will all then get a nice smug feeling for not being in trouble themselves...his teacher does sound as if she is in a bad way, is she a NQT, or new to school, or just changed classes or something or do you think it's something outside? (Our school did a re-shuffle following an OFSTED and the loss of one teacher, a Reception teacher was forced to take a Y1/Y2 and the Y1/Y2 teacher forced to take Y3/Y4, the former actually had a nervous breakdown and left (she was a NQT but had been OK) and the latter was pretty much wrecked by the end of the year.)

Anyway, hope you have a productive meeting (hope you have a meeting!). (Unlike wussy me I mean.) Not long now till the end of term and not too much actual work over the next 2 weeks - hope your DS enjoys concerts/plays, parties etc. and then you can all have a nice untrammelled Christmas!

Thanks, sobernow - we do our best!

What news on the wedding plans btw?

sobernow, thanks for your message - I don't get to read all the threads, so did I miss this latest news of yours? very sorry to hear you are feeling down.

Janh - do make sure that if there is a next time you do go and see this teacher.
My eldest ds was in an orchestra which is organised by a very bad tempered, at times aggressive man. He has the support of a number of parents because of the 'wonderful results' he gets. He teaches violin and was acually stopped from teaching at primary schools because of the way he treated some pupils. My ds did not have any problems at first, but as his friends gave up because of this horrible behiour towards them, he
then became the target.

I am sorry to say I avoided any confrontation with him and indeed, my son didn't want me to make things worse. The orchestra is a very well known one locally and has a lot of support from the council.
Anyway, this man destroyed my son's confidence and self esteem. I did confront him on a few occasions, each time his behaviour improved for a while. Unfortunately he also made out that lack of effort on my son's part was the problem, and that he was only trying to get him to improve.
In the end, my son hated his violin and the orchestra so much that he stopped going. What a relief to us all. My son also felt that in the end I had betrayed him because I hadn't done enough.
My regret is that I did not confront him early enough and that I did not go to the education authority and demand action. This man is 'tolerated'because of the results he gets. He has the support of parents who pay for private lessons with him as well as school lessons - their children are not targeted. Those parents absolve him by saying that if the child can't cut it then they just aren't good enough.
Parents have previously been to the education authority but nothing was done because there was no 'evidence'. The well known orchestra is run outwith the school. I withdrew ds from the school orchestra and had got him a different private teacher.

Sorry about this rant but you can see that it obviously still angers me. Anyway, the point is, do not let this woman get away with it. It is too late this time, but if there is another incident make an appointment to see her WITH the headteacher.

I needed to do that a few months ago with ds's English teacher and there was a dramatic improvement. I told her that I had already had one 'unorthodox' teacher ruining my son's time at school and that I would not tolerate another!
It went very well and she and my ds had a very long discussion from which he benefited enormously.

Hard being a parent isn't it?

my goodness mears, that is some story. Your poor son. It sounds as if the teacher was on a power trip - enjoying the control he had over the children. And as for favouring his private pupils - well that stinks!

I hate to admit it but I am always slightly suspicious of adults - those with no children of their own or connection with schools - who are heavily involved in these types of extra curricular activities. I know some adults do this once their own children have grown up and they have time on their hands - a way of paying back the community and keeping in touch with children. However, if this is not the case, well I'm sorry but I find it a bit strange - but always willing to be convinced it is not.

The worst thing is this person does have children and has had 3 wives!