Confused!! Advise needed please 🙏

[Larrissaa]

I have a 5 year old ds who is in Year 1 who is very advanced academically for his age. He loved school so much and always looked forward to going to school. He is very intelligent, he is currently working on Y5 maths e.g long multiplication and division. All self taught...he just loves Maths. Knows his timetable up to 20. However since starting this academic year all that have changed. In the first 3 weeks he would cry profusely begging me not to go school. This was really strange as he loved going to school so much . I discussed with the class teacher and she said he will soon settle. However, in the last 3 months I have noticed a big change in him, he is no longer interested in any academic activities. He has mentioned several comments from his teacher such as fact he knows the answer doesn't mean he is intelligent or smart. He told me why does he need to bother with school work because he will never be good enough for his teacher . it breaks my heart when I hear such comments from my son. At the last Parents meeting I tried bringing this issues with the teacher but she didn't seem interested and just mentioned that he knew too much for his age. His confidence level has reduced drastically, he sits alone at the back of the class.
Please advise, should I take him to another state primary school or private school where he will reach is full potential. I feel sad everyday seeing my child decline in his confidence. The current teacher has really broken him. His teacher when he was in reception was outstanding.
Please help ... I am so upset and devastated.

speak to the teacher again before changing schools.
i have a v bright 5 year old - he has been in trouble this term as his behaviour and way of speaking is defiant / rude (he doesn’t just accept it and talks to the teachers as they talk to him). Its tricky, at the end of the day ALL 30 children have to learn and that means they have to behave. I was v upset and protective of him and I spoke to the head as well as his teacher and TA. We have considered private option but its too expensive, from 5. We also have an older DC. He also knows his times tables - up to 10. But he isn’t allowed to take school test for the awards until he is in KS2.

"he knew too much for his age" if this is what she actually said, then you need to try to take it up with her one more time and then take it further. If he's being a defiant know it all then you need to know, if she can't cope with a gifted child then you need to know.

@laughinglemons thank you. I have sent an email to the school requesting a meeting with the headteacher. Hopefully it get resolved.

@cathcath2 thank you. He may sometimes come across as know it all to be honest. I really don't know how to handle this situation apart from discussing with the headteacher and hoping that the issues will get resolved. I want to remain the confident and enthusiastic child that he was. Full of life and very eager to learn.

Reception can be easier for gifted kids because they can play and then write stories/do Maths when they want and the paper is out.
In Year 1, they usually have to sit at tables and do the set work first. An able child is easily extended in English eg can write a lot more or the teacher can tell them to use adverbs/speech maths/paragraphs quite easily. However, they have to do the set work first. Does he not have a sketch book/busy bee book to do stuff in when he has finished the set work? I think they think they expect the gifted kids to extend themselves.
How is his writing? His reading? Can he read when he has finished? It isn’t their job to teach him eg year 5 maths. Even later on, let’s say you are really good at one subject, you still have to do the rest until GCSE. Also unfortunately the Maths curriculum is all about greater depth Nrich type stuff. They should provide that at least.

@Araminta1003 thank you for your response. He is good at reading and writing. His reception teacher said he was working easily at Yr 3/4 in English.and easily year 5 in maths. His vocabulary is very for his age
he is currently into science, solar system etc. He doesn't watch tv or play with toys, thats just his personality. I understand they can't teach him year 5 maths but I think there should be ways to support such children. As there are measures to support children with SEN. He has really lost his enthusiasm for school, he said the teacher no longer calls him when he raises his hand to answer a question because she feels he already knows the answer. So now he doesn't feel the need to participate in class.
I feel upset about this. My dh says maybe we should consider private, but how am I so sure he will be supported and included in the learning.

Where do you live? Can you afford a top selective private school? At schools in London like St Paul’s or Westminster there are many gifted children like your DS so he wouldn’t be the only one. They are extended further through things like music, chess, sports, drama - learning Shakespeare early and the learning is interesting for them. However, mainly they are not outlier because there are other kids more like them.
I do understand because my boys are very intelligent too. They found Year 1 and 2 difficult. After that they learnt to be more independent and satisfy their own huge desire for learning and they each played 3 instruments and did coding/chess/foreign languages and just a read a ton of books too. But the maths was always a problem in state primary.

Also OP at the height of his boredom in primary, one of my DS would get up at 6am each day, practise 3 instruments before school. After school he was reading very complex books like War & Peace or Moby Dick and he was writing his own very bizarre novel. But he learnt to manage his mind’s needs. Later on when he was older he explained to me that he would feel anxious if his mind was not satisfied. We even had him assessed for autism because in early primary he didn’t have many kids to connect with (although he didn’t have any problems at nursery or in Reception at all). In the end it just transpired that he has an incredibly high IQ - the games he wanted to play were just too elaborate/complex for the other kids and he wanted to discuss history/science etc. Often when they are bored and unhappy it is because they are not fitting in socially.

Even as adults highly gifted people benefit from having an outlet in hobbies. So I would be diverting his love of learning widely into a lot of extra curricular opportunities for him to shine. A sport for balance as well as musical instruments/coding/chess etc

@Araminta1003 thank you so much. We live in North West England. Your boys sound like my ds, he always wants to be stimulated mentally and sometimes it can be exhausting even for the adult. I had a meeting with the headteacher and it was clear from the meeting that they are not willing to support him. She said she can't do anymore for him than they do for the other children. She was also very defensive and said it was his responsibility to access more work of required. He is only 5, the youngest in his class. It's really sad. I guess I will look into private school option, where he can have access to extra curricular activities and ca develop in other areas.

Hi Larriassaa. I agree with Araminta that primary schools do SO much for anyone falling within the parameters of SEN.
This is really sad. Well done for going to the head and trying to find a solution in his school. Sounds as if he would get a scholarship to a private school but I don’t think these are offered until aged 7 at the youngest. Shame the labour government don’t know about this situation with their policy to make private schools even more expensive and out of reach of more children.

Ps My DD is always saying that she isn’t asked the answers even though she raises her hand because she knows them, also she was so disappointed not to be invited to the year 6 book club (because she doesn’t need encouragement to read 🙄) and she is only top 15% - your DCs sound top 1%

There is a charity called Potential Plus UK (formerly the National Association for Gifted Children, operating since the 60s). Look on their website, but also on their Facebook discussion group called Parenting High Potential. Lots of stories similar to your own and hopefully some solidarity and advice for you!

Hi op, the but where you say the teacher no longer picks him because he knows the answer struck a chord with me as a teacher. If your son is very bright and able and knows all the answers it can be a real difficulty because in the same class the teacher with have children with a very broad ability range, including below age related expectations. Those children will also be switching off if the one super bright child keeps answering all the questions. It sounds to me like the teacher doesn't really know how to provide adequate challenge for your son because his ability is so far above the curriculum level that his class is working at. I think you should approach the school and have some suggestions of how they can challenge him more. At my kids primary lots of kids go out of lessons for instrument lessons for example. Could he have some independent projects to work on. Could he spend maths sessions in another year group class.

The teacher's attitude is disgusting. They are damaging your child. Hostility towards gifted kids is a known issue. The teacher may feel jealous of or threatened by your child - jealous because he is more able than them / their own children; threatened because he asks awkward questions or is exposing their professional inadequacies as they don't know how to deal with him. But their attitude and behaviour are unconscionable.

There is good advice from @AnotherBrightSunrise above. If you can get an assessment (either through Potential plus or an ed psych) it may help you understand what you are dealing with, though the school may not act on it.

I disagree with the statement above that there are "many" children like this at the top London schools, or for that matter in any school in the country. It's a myth put out there by schools/parents who would like it to be true. Working at Y3/Y4 level in English and Y5 level in maths while still in reception is exceptionally rare. Fully academically selective schools do have a higher percentage than non-selective, but they are still a minority within a minority - a couple per year group at the most.

You may find the following relevant

https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/small-poppies-highly-gifted-children-in-the-early-years/

https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/gifted_101.htm

https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/the_highly_gifted.htm

@Larrissaa after reading your first message, I hoped simply to be able to say that it is probably just this one teacher, and your DS will just need to make the best of Y1, get on with his work, bring his own material in to use if he has finished the class work and the teacher is reluctant to give him any more, etc. My DD had a tricky Y1 for much the same reasons, although in her teacher's case she acknowledged that she ought to do more, but struggled to find the time. This was understandable and DD managed, and Y2, Y4 and Y6 were much better because those teachers were great with the bright children.

However, now you've escalated it to the headteacher and had a disappointing response, you're in a more difficult position because the headteacher may not approve if any other teachers try to differentiate too much for him in future years.

You don't have to move him to a private school to access extra-curricular opportunities for him. There are loads of hobbies he could take up after school and at weekends - musical instrument, coding, chess, sports etc.

It is also worth bearing in mind that a private school may not be a great deal better at pushing him ahead of the rest of the class. It will depend how selective it is and on the ethos of each individual school. The grass isn't always greener on the 'private' side of the fence. You could look at other local state primaries as well.

@Larrissaa I used to be a primary school governor and my remit was maths. I once asked how often the school saw gifted mathematicians. As a 40 plus year old teacher, the subject coordinator could think of one or two. So your DS is pretty rare.

I also believe gifted dc have sen. It’s just not recognised but it’s vital that it is. Clearly it’s the opposite of most Sen dc they see but these gifted dc have needs too. The teacher almost certainly won’t know how to keep your DS interested and give him work at the level he requires.

I assume they do have academic preps in the NW. So why not try for a place and a bursary. You need to be careful about the prep but unless you get very switched on teaching for him, I don’t see how this issue can be resolved. Look for a prep with academic scholarships to the best senior schools.

Often ks1 teachers like all dc to be treated equally and when a dc is so bright, they just don’t have the skills to educate a child so different from his peers. Ive seen state schools put dc into a higher class for maths. My friend had two boys who eventually went to Cambridge for maths and they just went into the y5 class for maths. Both parents were also pretty good at maths though!

Im sure others know more than me but this is a sen so the school should take it seriously.

Teachers would find more gifted pupils if they looked harder. I am aware of 2 children at 2 different schools where teachers denied unusual ability and trotted out the same lines as pretexts for inaction: In both cases, Subsequent standardised testing showed the child in question to be in the top 0.1% / working beyond the ceiling of the test.

Given that I heard the same excuses in several schools, a translation guide to the standard lines they trotted out may be helpful:

"We have five or six children working at X's level" -> we are giving 5 or 6 children the same work because it hasn't occurred to us that some of them might be capable of much more.

"All of our children are gifted" -> we prefer fiction to non-fiction, and are better at creative writing than maths.

"We are an academic school" -> we are a complacent school. We selected on the way in, so we know decent grades are in the bag for the cohort. Let's take it easy and do one-size-fits-all rather than trying to add value.

"He's not the fastest in the class" -> we are so ignorant that we think processing speed / handwriting speed are good measures of abstract/mathematical reasoning ability.

"He makes careless errors" -> he's bored and disengaged. He might actually score higher if we gave him something more challenging, but we think the way to handle this is to give him more of the same banal crap.

"He's not getting 100%" -> We believe in dual standards: other pupils do not get 100% before proceeding to harder material, but for him we shall make a special exception.

"He has to sit through the same class as the others" -> it has not occurred to us to explore options such as acceleration or computer instruction, because we are untrained and poorly read in gifted education

"We can't teach above the national curriculum" -> we either haven't read or haven't understood the national curriculum guidance doc, which is clear that student can be moved to higher levels. So we need to work on our reading and comprehension skills.

"He doesn't show his work" -> He doesn't need to do written work because the questions are far too simple. We could give him something sufficiently complex that he might need to do some written work (and thereby see the point of it), but we think it's much more important to win a pissing contest with a 6 year old / his parents by giving him more of the same, piled higher.

❤

Could you get a private tutor for him???

I think where I was a governor did recognise bright dc and educate them appropriately. They are rare. I have no doubt being in a 11 plus county makes teachers aware there are bright dc about and, guess what?, parents know their dc are bright. They don’t sit back and accept excuses from schools. The grammars see gifted dc of course and primary schools link with grammar maths teachers, for example, for extension work.

My DD was at primary with a very bright mathematician in her year. She was never in a separate class and everyone saw her as perfectly normal. Just Cambridge bound for maths. Her parents were keen for her to have a good school experience and not push her. Worked for them.

@Larrissaa hi , I just came across this thread as I am having issues with dd’s state school and she is advanced (not as advanced as yours though in maths ) -what did you do at the end and how has it been since? Thanks