language choices - chinese or latin?

[mimsum]

ds has to choose two languages when he goes into Y7 in September - he definitely wants to do Spanish as his first choice but says he wants to do Mandarin Chinese as his second language. I'm not convinced that this is the right decision and I'm trying to persuade him to do Latin instead. He says Latin isn't useful - I think he has visions of himself chatting fluently in Mandarin by his mid-teens

any persuasive arguments one way or the other? we have to make decision by monday

I think chinese would be more useful

Dunno - I studied Latin and it is the basis for a lot of European languages and it has made learning them a lot easier for me. My DH also studied it and he can speak loads of languages (yes we're geeky - but hey geek can be chic.... sometimes). On top of that, it is really useful if you end up in a medically orientated type of work.... it helps with the lingo! I can understand the interest in Chinese too...... It is so hard making these kind of decisions in early teens - conscientious young man - well done you!

What are his favourite subjects at school? If he's quite musical and creative then Chinese might suit him as it's a tonal language and he would find that easier to pick up and speak. He'd probably like learning the characters too. If he's got a very logical brain then Latin would be a good choice.

I'd go with what he wants. Latin is only interesting if you thinks it's going to be if you see what I mean and it's usefulness is limited to making European languages (inc English) slightly easier. Mandarin is quite in vogue at the moment and might come in useful one day - I doubt he'll get very fluent at it even if he continues to GCSE, but who knows?

Latin as really helps you understand european languages. Mandarin is very 'now' but incredibly difficult to learn at higher level.

Chinese is definitely in vogue at the moment.

Can he do both?

sorry, not much help. I would go for Chinese but am easily swayed by fashion, also by the motivation of a child who actually wants to study something. If it helps I think it is a win-win situation.

Also why shouldn't he be chatting fluently in Chinese? If he wants to? And why should it being difficult to learn put him off??

TBH a relative of mine who has studied Chinese and speaks it as far as I know pretty well, is somewhat dismissive of efforts in this country to learn Chinese with a view to business success - simply because we don't graft hard enough and the culture is not to put children in for 8 hours special language school on a Sunday or whatever. However, learning languages is 100% a good thing IMO and also in her opinion, whatever the language actually is.

Mimsmum - I actually did Latin to A level and maintained it at Uni, I did a history degree - many original sources in Latin. (Mind you, I can see that this may not exactly grip the imagination of a Y7).

I now use it to loudly translate Latin inscriptions in churches and places of historical interest when out with my Latin-is-a-load-of-useless-ponce family .

I'm learning Mandarin CHinese at the moment, and I can see no reason why he wouldn't become fluent.

There are 2500 - 3000 words in common usage in Chinese, compared with 60,000 - 70,000 in English!

The main difficulty (at least for me, 18 weeks into my course!) is that you're not only learning new words but you're also having to learn how to read/write Chinese characters.

I would think that Spanish and Chinese would be a really good combination (and certainly - alongside English) the 2 most common languages in the world. From Spanish he will also develop a good understanding of other European languages like Italian and French.

If he's really interested in Latin he could always take it up later? Depends what he would be learning it for.

Definitely chinese. The business language of the future.

Friends of ours have a chinese guy who comes in and plays with their DCs for a couple of hours at the weekend and only speaks chinese to them. They are learning at an amazing rate without realizing it. Considering it for DS1.

I have studied both - they are really different. Latin is useful for European languages (and the crossword!) - but if he's already doing Spanish maybe that's enough?
Mandarin is really easy at a low level, but harder as you go up. What put me off it in the end is that the amount of time you need to put into learning characters and so on (as an adult anyway) means that in some way you are committing yourself to a future involved with China - which you may or may not want. If he doesn't practice it, it is also likely that he will forget it by the time he starts working. Obviously it is much easier to practice Spanish in Europe...

If he wants to do Chinese, tell him to go for it. I think it will be really useful in the future, plus he gets to learn a new alphabet

I think learning Latin is also really helpful (esp for English) but if he doesn;t want to do it he's unlikely to do well

There's one other thing to bear in mind (and sorry, becauseImworthit if this is you...) . Several people I met in China who learnt Mandarin in the UK - even at degree level - weren't able to get themselves understood, at all. There are hundreds of different accents and dialects, and you need to be sure that the teacher you get visits China often and has a reasonably 'standard' accent.

Having said that, this all sounds really negative, and I don't mean to. There are just some pitfalls with Chinese, but practically speaking, yes, I reckon its more useful than Latin, especially if you want to go into business. If however, DS wants to be an academic, or writer, or whatever, latin might be better.

thanks everyone

ds is very logical and not at all musical which is partly why I've been trying to steer him towards Latin - his Latin teacher this year thinks he could do incredibly well in the subject and that it really suits the way his brain works

however, he has really enjoyed doing Chinese this year (his school does half a term of 6 different languages in Y6 plus Latin and Arabic) - his Chinese teacher is from Beijing and seems to have grabbed ds's attention

I think we'll have to go with what he wants in the end as if he's not motivated and feels resentful at being railroaded into a decision he's not going to do well

ho hum ...

I'm Head of MFL in a multi-cultural comprehensive school, and every year, we put 3 or 4 pupils forward for Chinese GCSE (either in Cantonese or Mandarin), and they do very well ...

but ...

they are all native speakers, as are the vast majority of people in the UK who take Chinese as an A level or GCSE subject.

It's something to bear in mind - if he were to continue to GCSE level, he wouldn't be nearly as fluent as those people (obviously), and the GCSE specification in Chinese is at a level to reflect the fact that you have to learn the signs as well a the sound.

I'd suggest he plump for Latin ... if he still has a burning desire to study Chinese, he can still do so, and study it ab initio at University - which is difficult to do with Latin ...

just my 2p-worth, mind!

I did Latin for beginners at uni btw...

Mimsmum - I hope he enjoys whatever he chooses. He'll always have the opportunity to do the other one at a later stage if he wants...so he may as well choose what makes him happy

sagitta - I'm beginning to appreciate what you mean about making yourself understood, however, our teacher is Chinese and has paid a huge amount of attention (and continues to do so) to our pronounciation.

If he's logical then Latin does sound more suitable. I'm quite analytical and found it suited my style - I recall that those who were good at maths tended to be also very good at Latin.

One of the later pleasures was also encountering descriptions of varied sexual practices - goats featured a lot in Latin poetry, from what I remember

as an ex head of langs, chinese chinese chinese for sure, far more useful