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Original poster

Religious schools discriminating against atheists

407 replies

MNersanonymous · 12/03/2008 21:30

Dh and I are just having a discussion about this. The best state schools in our area are all religious and we, as atheists, feel discriminated against.

Could we take action against our local council under the religious discrimination legislation?!

Just curious really.

OP posts:

Oblomov · 13/03/2008 12:02

one bat , going back to the sibling thisng, whilst I appreciate that it may be practical, it is none the less, could be argued that it too, is discriminatory. Becsue ds does not have siblings, he is discriminated against. And that is something he can't do anything about.
So he, I am being discriminated against.OP said she was being discriminated against.The fact is, that another child would be selected before ds, becasue of a factor that ds can do nothing about. And it actually doesn't matter that it is practical, ds can't change it, thsu he is being discriminated against.
Well, so are we.
Or do you not think I too am being discriminated gainst ?
People are discriminated against in all sorts of ways. Not just the OP.

mrsruffallo · 13/03/2008 12:02

batmother I love your use of language

IorekByrnison · 13/03/2008 12:04

What onebat just said.

Can't see how the sibling thing is comparable, Oblomov.

Oblomov · 13/03/2008 12:04

I too am very much enjoying my debate with One bat

mrsruffallo · 13/03/2008 12:05

She's lovely isn't she Ob

LadyOfWaffle · 13/03/2008 12:06

Just wondering - if the faith schools weren't there, would a state school be in their place? ie. have/has a faith school replaced a state school?

RubberDuck · 13/03/2008 12:09

LadyOfWaffle: of course, if there was no faith school there then there'd be X number of extra school places needed and an extra state school would be provided, or existing state school made bigger, etc, etc.

RubberDuck · 13/03/2008 12:09

(but to be fair the faith school hasn't REPLACED the state school as the faith school was there first...)

Playingthewaitinggame · 13/03/2008 12:10

LadyofWaffle - I think that is an interesting questions. I would guess that no, I think it is unlikely that a CofE school has replaced a state school. Most school were orginally run by the church (particularly if we are talkign abotu village school here) and they have become state schools. The church played (still does in a lot of places) a central role in village life.

onebatmother · 13/03/2008 12:10

why thank you Mrs R

Yes , your child is being disadvantaged by having no siblings. According to your earlier argument, that has been a choice, made by you, who chooses a school on behalf of your son.. I would say, however, that such an approach is ludicrous and reductive.

Nevertheless, I am not certain that he is being discriminated against. Need is different to belief. A family with many children needs them to be at the same school, and a just society helps those with the greater need.

So I'm not sure that your child is being discriminated against, he simply has less pressing needs than the sibling of a child who already attends the school.

Oblomov · 13/03/2008 12:11

Becasue OP is being discrimainted against, re the criteria of a school. The school is catholic or coe or whatever, and they give priority to catholics/ coe.
But I am just sating that discrimiantion is in the criteria system, not just of religious schools.
Plus, I know this is a petty idea. But I still think it is true. - sorry :
If you were paying your taxes and it was funding a little religious school down the road, and it was crap, you wouldn't want your child to go there. But is the school is good and you can't get in, then that bothers you.
When ds was born, I did think about where we lived and schools. If you choose to live in a village that only has one school, then maybe moving earlier is best.
Besides OP said "The best state schools in our area are all religious "
There are other schools, but they are not as good, THATS WHY SHE IS BOTHERED.

IorekByrnison · 13/03/2008 12:12

But do we really want to dismantle well functioning, popular schools for the sake of ideology? Surely it would be better to allow them to continue, but to make them conform to fair selection processes.

IorekByrnison · 13/03/2008 12:13

Lawks this is moving fast - that was a reply to rubberduck btw

Playingthewaitinggame · 13/03/2008 12:15

I'm not quite sure the sibling argument is the same thing but I can understand it. My local primary school has 16 places for year R. 14 of those 16 places are taken up by siblings, so there are only 2 places for first/only children in catchment. 2 places!! That is why 24 people have put the school down as a first choice place (they all live in catchment) but only 16 will get one. I can see how that feels like discrimation, its not fair, there should be more places as it is the only village school. Its not the same thing, onebat has clearly described why, but u would probably feel discrimated against.

RubberDuck · 13/03/2008 12:15

Iorek (damn, I love that book ). Yes, I think simply having to have the same selection processes as other state schools would be a lot fairer.

Ideally, as I say, there'd also be a law separating church and state, but realistically I know that isn't going to happen for a while.

Oblomov · 13/03/2008 12:17

I was only joking about ds being discriminated against. Of course I don't think he is. Plus, what can we do. But I can not change that. For every parent there has to be a first child. And thus, that first child can therefore obviously not have an older sibling.
But I was just playing devils advocate, because it still IS discrimination, or could be argued that.
Is is not biologically possible for a first child to have an older sibling. I nor ds can change that, so thus, he is being discrimiated against, by many of our local schools, for whom siblings is a very high criterai choice.Doesn't bothe me, becasue we got into our first choice, a lovely RC school. Best in the county.

can you forgive me ?

donnie · 13/03/2008 12:17

agree with all of oblomov's posts.

Playingthewaitinggame · 13/03/2008 12:19

Iorek, I think I agree with you. I can't see the argument for dismantling good church school but I think they should be available to all. However, I don't think the OP was specifically talking about admissions (of course it plays a part) but of the wider held belief that even if she got her child in she would not want to send them there as its a religious school.

onebatmother · 13/03/2008 12:19

gah! she is bothered because she's paid for it but she can't use it, now that she needs it!

As an aside, Iorek, I suspect that if the selection criteria were made equitable then faith schools would suffer from exactly the same problems as the state one down the road.

And I still firmly believe that faith - an individual choice and one which is irrational (in the true sense of the word) - has nothing to do with education, which must be rational.

Oblomov · 13/03/2008 12:20

Really Donnie, oh thank you. I thought I was on my own

Harpsi hasn't come back to me about how my mum made a choice re her faith/religion.

edam · 13/03/2008 12:20

Thank you, Rubberduck. Not sure I'd quite go as far as a law separating church and state, though. I like the fact that the CofE is legally obliged to care for ALL of us if we ask - baptise us, marry us, bury us. Although some vicars try not to let on... and the bishops add a bit of colour to the House of Lords.

onebatmother · 13/03/2008 12:20

I can forgive you oblomov. Despite my atheism.

edam · 13/03/2008 12:22

I know what you mean about the sibling rule, Oblomov, ds is an only. But I put up with it because it's sensible even though a bit unfair to us.

I'd change it so parents who move out of catchment aren't entitled to send their second, third and fourth kids, though.

Playingthewaitinggame · 13/03/2008 12:22

Certainly the C of E school in the next village is full of mainly non-christians, so admission policies has still allowed these kids into the school but it could still be argues (not sure I completely agree with this) that these kids are still being descriminated against because they have to conform to a religious school when they are not Christian.

Oblomov · 13/03/2008 12:24

one bat has forgiven me.Than God. Best I still get off to confession, though, just in case

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