Religious schools discriminating against atheists

[MNersanonymous]

Dh and I are just having a discussion about this. The best state schools in our area are all religious and we, as atheists, feel discriminated against.

Could we take action against our local council under the religious discrimination legislation?!

Just curious really.

Is this thread a joke? Of course it's your prerogative not to believe in any sort of god, but surely you can't then complain about feeling excluded from schools run by, and for, people who do believe? You can't have it both ways.

In answer to the OP - I don't think atheists are covered by religious discrimination legislation (in fact, I'm not sure whether that legislation got through in the end - it was pretty controversial).

Don't like faith schools - DEFINITELY don't like state-funded faith schools. Bloody cheek.

Anyway, the council would argue that you have a school place. They're not under any legal obligation to offer you a place at a school you would like!

hmm. Run by and for but not funded by. Problematic.

Having until recently been blissfully unaware of how the school system works, I'm fairly flabbergasted that state schools are allowed to discriminate on the grounds of religion, which is certainly what it sounds like to me.

clam: but surely it's highly hypocritical when (christian organisations in particular) claim that outreach and evangelism are their highest calling, yet make sure that none is done in their schools because its only the kids that HAVE faith that are let in?

And that's even without the issue of public funds.

I just wish faith schools would become proper private schools and drop the pretence...

"schools run by, and for, people who do believe" - but paid for by me Clam.

And NKF I'm not too sure of my facts here but I believe it is govt policy that parents should have a choice and LAs should facilitate that in their entry policies.

clam, faith schools are not run for and by people who do believe
they are run and paid for by the state and the tax payer

yes of course they discriminate on the grounds of the parents' religion
and, it seems from te news today, they feel free to ask for large sums of money too
oh and ask about parents' occupation and marital status
how very holy

We've been sold a pup and its name is choice. What we have is a preference. And we all prefer the good schools. So the schools have a selection process.

Distance perhaps. Faith. Music ability. Anything to be able to choose from among the hundreds of people who don't want the rubbish schools.

The problem is that there aren't enough desirable schools. It's a scandal that we pay for schools (via our taxes) and too many of them are awful. But diminishing the ethos of the few good schools that exist isn't going to help.

If it's a voluntary aided state school (like the primary my dc's go to) then it is partially funded by the church.
Would also point out even if it isn't voluntary aided that the church would have originally have provided the land and the buildings.

actually rubberduck, I think at least the Christian organisations do take their outreach obligations more seriously than other faiths.

Last time anyone heard of any of the other faith schools (I know there are Jewish and Muslim schools, not sure what others) actively seeing children of other faiths to join their school?

I think the Christian schools are just more wised up to the need to appear to be inclusive (while actually excluding a huge number of people). Quickest way to appear to be inclusive is to let in a few "others" to show how liberal you are but not let in all the others because that would be too scary.

But isn't the real problem here the fact that there are too few good schools around. I mean, if there was a good non-faith school within walking distance an athiest would choose that over a faith school wouldn't it?

Christywhisty: 100% of the running costs are provided by the state
up to 10% of the capital costs only might be contributed by the church.

Clam

You want faith? Why don't you pay for it yourself? Why should I pay for your faith? I don't believe that it should have anything to do with education other than in religious education classes where your faith can compete with all the others for attention.

If there was an atheists' only school getting fabulous results, no atheists would mind that Christians couldn't attend.

actually - I would mind.

I'd hate an all atheist school too. I just see religion as irrelevant to a proper education and it should remain where it belongs - in church (where you can choose to attend if that floats your boat) and in RE lessons.

nametaken, that's part of the problem, yes. But the main problem is that as with private and state schools, some schools are using a bizarre and irrelevant criterion to select pupils and this is a way to cream off the best, leaving the rest unable to get better because they are left with the less able pupils, on the whole.

Yes, all schools should be properly funded so that they can all achieve their best but separately, the creaming off of a section of the intake is corrosive.

And on a macro level, why the hell we allow taxpayers money to be spent supporting faith is beyond me.

To clarify: I certainly want my children educated in all the different religions out there, I consider it vital for understanding and social cohesion. I just don't want it presented to them as fact that shouldn't be questioned.

So what if religious discrimination applied to anything else which is paid for out of taxpayer's money, eg health service, unemployment benefit, bin collection?

No NKF I wouldn't. I would finally be getting the service that christians have had all these years. But what I'd rather is that all schools were non faith.

Yes ... why on EARTH would you want to be treated in a hospital that was run by and for Christians How dare you want to get better...

We don't all use the things our taxes pay for? That's how a tax system works. If we don't want one, let's privatise all schools and the army while we're about it.

nkf - 'If there was an atheists' only school getting fabulous results, no atheists would mind that Christians couldn't attend.' - I don't think that's fair, really. I entirely agree with you that this 'choice' business is a crock of sh*t, but IMO the answer lies in making admissions criteria for all state schools as fair as possible ('fair' in that as many children as possible should have as equal a chance as possible of getting into any given school - I'm in favour of lotteries myself).

There are a whole load of schools that we all pay for, through our taxes, that most children don't have a hope of getting into. Selective grammar schools, for a start. And people who opt for private schools pay twice. And we all have to accept that there are a whole load of other things that our taxes pay for that we don't personally benefit from. It's the way it is. But it begs the question, why are faith schools so often considered "good?" Is it because they promote traditional values and good behaviour that stem from the churches' teachings? In which case, if you don't want religion, why would you want your child in that sort of environment?