KUMON

[Hopeoverexperience]

Does anyone have any experience ,knowledge or opinions on Kumon maths? I am considering it as an option for my slightly struggling & unconfident DD aged 6. Thanks!

evie- DD is at a private school in TW . Initially we paid for Maths Whizz on top of school fees, now it is included . It was organised by the school for all pupils at their suggestion. The Kumon is something we are doing independently from the school so we will be paying out again I'm afraid.

Ooooo, I am really quite embarressed to admit this, but my DD1 (now 4.7) has been doing Kumon Reading since age4 and the maths for the past 2 months. My reason for this early start is that she would (should) be in Reception in UK, but we are currently living in Texas, due to move back to London this summer. Here she attends a play school - no work, and I did not want her to be too far behind for YR1 on our return, esp as she is shy and will find the move and social adjustment hard. All of that just to explain that I am not really as pushy as it may seem.

Now onto Kumon, it has been amazing. As has been mentioned by others, they start them off at a very easy level, building confidence fast. My DD reads amazingly well, and it has been completely stress-free, no tears etc. (Just the big commitment of daily work, even on holiday). She loves Kumon, and even prefers the maths to reading now. I would have to say that anything you do 'little and often' will improve greatly, and I love the guidance and advice they provide at the centre. We pay $110 per subject. I would recommend that you stick to it for AT LEAST 3 months before you evaluate progress. Good luck, and I do hope your DD finds it fun too.

Thanks for letting me know Hope.

Oops sorry Hope (another quick diversion)- are you aiming to keep your dd in private post 11 or are you working towards grammar system?

Evie- Very much hoping for a Grammar School place if at all possible . The Girls' Grammar in TW has an excellent reputation so it would be great to get a place - a long way to go though!! Have you any firm plans to move to TW? Do you have a DD or DS? How old? Excuse the interrogation!!

No worries Hope! Re Kumon, the lady I know whose son does it is the headteacher of a grammar school here in Kent so I guess she feels it is of benefit with regard to the 11 plus. From what I can gather Kumon seems to involve basic maths knowledge, repitition and speed so I can see how it might help.

(the move to TW is becoming more likely although not 100% definite yet. DH's job would actually be in East Sussex, however we would like to stay near to TW both for grammar schools and because it's a bit more lively for us. We have got 3 DSs aged 6, 3 and a baby hence why we are worried about private school fees. However moving state schools after Reception intake is vv complicated and all the good ones in TW are full. Have you got any ideas? With regard to secondary, am I right in thinking that TWG schools for both girls and boys have catchment areas? I've heard that the west Kent grammars are always oversubscribed and harder to get into than the rest of Kent. Just realised how much I have rambled on-sorry-if you can help maybe I can pass on an e-mail address to you?).

My son did the Kumon method for 18 months and was left feeling very confident with his number bonds. He still has this ability a few years on.

Yes, it is just numbercrunching, but that really helps as numbercrunching is part of problem-solving - it leaves them able to concentrate on the problem solving rather than having to do both things (numbercrunch and problemsolve, iyswim!).

You still need to deal with the problem solving part. Schofield and simms publish good, basic problem solving workbooks at £1.95 each. You could talk through a problem a day with your child, identifying the key vocabulary and the key 'things to do'.

Good luck.

Evie - please feel free to pass on an e-mail address . It is indeed complicated !! - I do know the area & schools ect... quite well & would be happy to help . The Grammar schools are certainly oversubscribed & places very prized. The better primary schools can also be a bit of a nightmare too !!
Thanks bramblebooks. I will be really pleased if Kumon helps DD as it clearly did your DS . She really could do with a confidence boost - bless her!

dd did Kumon for maths and it didnt work for her at all!
Its very repetitive and starts by going over a lot of very easy sums.
DD is quite bright but was lacking confidence so we thought it might help boost it. but the result was the opposite she became very bored as it wasnt challenging enough and would say she was stuck on things like 2+1 at the age of 6 when she had covered much harder stuff at school with ease.
We pulled her out and paid out for a private tutor instead. DD came on leaps and bounds and no longer has the need for a tutor.

After speaking to her teacher though I think kumon does work very well for some children just not with others. You could always try it for a month and see how it works. You dont know until you try.

cat64, having to go each week and hand in the sheets very definitely makes you do it. I doubt most people have the self discipline to remember every day without this. I always think it's a bit like weight watchers in that regard!

We don't do it any more - but it helped us alot with number bonds & tables when we did which dd had a lot of difficulty learning. I've a feeling she's forgotten a lot again now though.

snorkle i think weight watchers is the perfect analogy - we are all perfectly capable of losing weight/counting calories/planning meals on our own, but without a bit of regiment/routine it tends to go by the wayside! You COULD do the Kumon stuff yourself, but some people find the structure and committment of it helpful.

Am I deficient as a mother, I don't know what number bonds are? What are they?

nothing fancy frankie don't worry!! just KNOWING that eg 4 + 6 = 10, as does 6 + 4, without having to count up.

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I think the possible problem (or, depending on your point of view, one of the many problems) with Kumon maths is that it is sold as an all-round solution for all struggles with maths. When it is not.

It works quite well for children who don't have an innate number-sense but do have a strong habit-memory sense - so, although you can't "see" that 11 + 6 is the same as 2 + 15, if you do those sums in parallel often enough your brain can get to recognise the connection; and that connection substitutes for the "seeing" of number-relations that naturally numerate people do. And, of course, Kumon would say that, once you've made the connection, it makes no difference whether the connection has been made instinctively or been trained into you - it's there and can be used. (Which is perfectly justifiable as a claim - think of people being trained to dance, or play the piano.)

However. It does not work for everyone, and the daily worksheets really do need to be baked into your daily routine - otherwise they probably will drive you (& child) mad. (Theory [which is mine]: I suspect the most successful Kumon students are in a way self-selecting - ie, there is something about their habit-memory ability which makes the daily worksheet routine not such a grind, but a kind of pleasant constitutional. They are the sort of children who will grow up to do the Sudoku in the paper on the way to work.)

It does have a very few simple word problems as you describe lisalisa, but from number bonds and tables & simple division it goes on to long multiplication and long division and fractions - we never got further than that (actually not quite that far), but the emphasis is very much on arithmetic rather than mathematics imo.

What is the Kumon English like? My DS could do with some extra help with his written work. I wonder if I should give Kumon a try, or whether I am better going through workbooks etc myself with him.

I've experience of Kumon English too (in fact I only know about Kumon maths because we got ds doing Kumon English & dd didn't want to be left out, so she did maths).

The English is very very very slow and devoid of inspiration. We chose to do it because ds would not put pencil to paper at school at all, despite being an excellent reader and having perfectly good pencil control and spelling & comprehension skills, etc. - he just did not want to write.

So I thought Kumon English worksheets could be sort of unpressured regular piano practice for his writing - and I think it did work, as regards his writing logjam - but it didn't teach him anything else. (But that is of course from angle of literacy already being pretty good - can't comment on how it would help if it was generally weaker.)

Once ds had got some more fluency in producing writing (which took over a year!), we stopped - as the next step, the being able to connect your thoughts and produce substance (rather than just forming or copying words) was, as you can imagine, outside what Kumon can deliver with its rote-learning system.

Hope, thanks a lot and sorry to hijack again. It's [email protected]. Any tips/info gratefully received (such as are there any private senior schools for boys in TW area except BSH which I think has just gone co-ed?).

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Evie - Have just tried to e-mail you but message was returned do you have alternative address?

Evie - if you review your status under contact a mumsnetter we could communicate that way.

Thanks Hope, I think I've done that now so you should be able to contact me. Any problems let me know.

Lisalisa - re the English - ds got quite far with it, far enough to be doing (Kumon's version of) comprehension on things like The Secret Garden, which is fairly sophisticated writing.

But, because the worksheets have to fit into the Kumon process model (ie: child works; parent marks (as you get higher up the levels, out of a prescribed Answer Book); Kumon centre monitors progress), all the questions had to be framed to have One Single Right Answer - which is inimical/anathema/fundamentally missing the point - whatever term you want - about literacy (once you get beyond spelling and grammar).

I guess that sort of learning might have its place - for children who are really very unconfident in their comprehension, perhaps - but it wasn't something that ds needed. He needed (and still needs) practice in extended writing of his own - assembling & sequencing his ideas - the sort of thing school story-writing helps with - and that hasn't a place in the Kumon model at all.