Questions about UK schooling system

[lgnacio93]

Hello,

Immigrant dad's here. I'd like to understand how education system works in the UK, since it seems entirely different from that in my home country. After reading Wik education in the United Kingdom, I have more questions:

• Do children change schools after year 11 to do A levels, when the mandatory schooling period ends? Can they stay in the same school?

• Are there any selection tests anywhere between year 1 – year 11? Is it true that some schools often all-included schools from year 1-11, whereas some schools only offer a subset of years? Why is there such a difference?

• Are further educationsw similar to vocational education?

Will add more questions as they come. Thanks in advance for any clarifications.

Ha ha. How long is a piece of string?!

Year 11 can stay at school if the school has a 6th form. Not all schools do and they usually only teach A levels. You can go to college instead to do A levels or other level 3 qualification ( level 3 is the years between 16-19).

Grammar schools and 11+ only exist in a few areas. Most children at secondary level go to a comprehensive or high school ( they are the same thing). There are no tests unless you are paying for private school apart from 11+ exam which is only in a few areas.

Year 1-11 schools are quite rare.

Reception to year 2 are ‘infant schools’ and the period of education is known as KS1

Year 3-6 are primary schools and are known as KS2.

Year 7-13 are secondary. They are not usually on the same site as the others but it can happen.
Ages 11-14 are years 7-9. This is known as KS3. Ages 14-16 is known as KS4 and students sit national exams at end of KS4
Ages 16-19 is KS5. Most students sit external exams at 18, but some may need an extra year. You can stay at your school if it offers KE5, or you can go to college.

Where in the UK, Scotland is very different to England for example.

But assuming England & assuming state not private it is also region specific.

You start school in reception and most primary schools go up to Year 6. You then go to secondary schools in Year 7. Some areas still have grammar schools so you take an entrance exam for those but most areas do not.

GCSE exams are taken in Year 11, (age 16 or almost 16 for those with summer birthdays)

There are then choices:

Some schools have their own 6th form so they go up to Year 13, but in some areas there are schools that only go up to age 16 so you have to go to a college. Different schools, colleges and 6th forms offer different things. There are A levels which are more academic or Btecs/T levels which are more practical/vocational. Some schools and colleges offer a mixture so you can combine A levels and Btec.

In areas where most schools have 6th forms attached then the colleges tend to offer the more vocational Btec type courses, but in areas where a lot of schools end at 16 the colleges offer A levels. Colleges can often offer a wider range of subjects due to sheer numbers. Most young people go to a couple of open days and apply to a couple of different schools/colleges.

There are a few areas that have the middle school system whereby First School is Reception to Year 4, Middle School is Year 5 to Year 9 and High School is Year 9 onwards but there are only a few of those.

Thanks! This is very helpful. Is the choice of individual school or local authority that decide whether to attach 6th form to year 11? If the choice is at the hand of schools, are schools that offer 6th form beyond year 11 systematically better/worse than those that don't?

I’d say they are generally better.

The education system in the UK is different depending on whether you are in England, Scotland, Wales or NI. I'll assume you're in England, as it's the most populated.

Children have to stay in school till 16, after that they are required to either stay in full time education, or start an apprenticeship/traineeship, or do work/volunteer for > 20 hours a week whilst also in part time education/training.

Whether or not schools have post-16 provision (often referred to as a Sixth Form) is very varied, there's no requirement for schools to offer it. If there are no school Sixth Forms in your area, then there will be Further Education colleges, which offer the same kind of post-16 education (A Levels, and similar) but in a slightly more University-like environment.

Schooling in England begins with the Reception class, not Year 1. Primary schools cover the Reception year, then Year 1 through to Year 6. Secondary schools start with Year 7 and go up to Year 11, then if they have a Sixth Form they will include Year 12 and 13.

Some Primary schools are split into separate schools for Infants (Reception to Year 2) and then Junior school (Year 3 to Year 6). In my town, there are mostly Primary schools, with a couple of combination Infant/Junior schools.

Nearly all state-provided schools are not selective, so there are no selection tests at any point up to age 16. In some counties in England, there is still the old-fashioned grammar school system for the state-provided schools. In those counties, pupils sit an exam called the 11+ at the end of primary school. The top section of pupils will be eligible to go to the grammar school in their area, and the remaining children go to secondary schools instead. Parents typically are desperate to get their children into the grammar school and will often hire private tutors and do extensive exam prep with their child.

Whether or not your child can continue into Sixth form (or go to a FE college) depends on their GCSE results, and each school/college will publish their entry requirements and application process.

Some areas aren't primary and secondary.

We have First, Middle and Upper schools here.

Do reception to Yr 4, Yr 5 to Yr 8 and then Yr 9 to Yr 13.

Just to throw that in to the mix!

Some of the best schools in my area are those that only go up to 16 and parents often take their children out of a local private school to send them to the highly regarded 6th form college.

Whether a school has a 6th form or not is mostly historical. In my area some schools have closed their 6th forms because there was no demand, probably because the local college is very good and can offer far more subjects.

I would also say that if you have young children, be aware of what local secondary schools offer at post 16 but be aware that lots of things change and what you think will happen age 11 might not be right for your child when they get to 16.

Existing schools typically don't ever decide to introduce a new 6th form if they haven't had one to date. Whether or not a brand new school has a 6th form is not just down to the school, it depends on the local set up and what the LA want. In my town, none of the secondary schools have 6th forms and there is one FE college for post-16 education. The new secondary school that opened recently does not have a 6th form as a result of this set up. The fact that none of the secondary schools in my town have a 6th Form has no impact whatsoever on the quality of those schools.

You need to ask locally. In Hampshire, there are no grammars and A levels are in 6th form college. In newer areas, they are building primaries so no more infants and juniors.

Without grammars, it means there are no selections for primaries and secondaries. But 6th form colleges and further education colleges are selective. The selection criteria will be on the colleges' website.

Thanks a lot everyone. Since there are no selection at primary and secondary stage unless there are grammars, does it mean that state schools don't differentiate in quality at these stages? If the quality does differ, what contribute to the differentials?

What do you mean "differentiate by quality"? Do you mean differentiation by the ability of the pupil, or do you mean are some schools better than others in terms of the quality of what they deliver to pupils?

If you mean differentiating by ability, then most secondaries will do that. Most "set" by ability for some subjects, but might teach some mixed-ability. Maths is most likely to be set, but languages and sciences are often set too, and sometimes English. That sort of decision is up to the individual school, so neighbouring schools may do different things. When it comes to GCSE, some subjects have two tiers of entry, so it's definitely not expected that everyone works at the same level.

On structure of schooling, there are lots of differences between regions, so what someone tells you about one area may not apply in another. For instance, somebody said above that schools rarely add a sixth form, but in our area (which has historically been 11-16 schools and sixth form colleges), three schools have opened sixth forms in the last 12 years.

Local demographics make a big difference in school preformace generally. London schools will be different to a county town and different again to a rural school.

This is because most children are placed in the school nearest to them. School choice is largely a myth, and you need to live very very close to some schools to get a place. My DC primary had a 300m "last admitted" area in a circle around the school. Secondaries take more children so have a larger radius and it can rise and fall depending on whats going on locally. A new housing estate may shirnk the area and rural, less populated areas may have take kids from 10km away.

It's complicated

In DC non selective primary and secondary, students are taught in sets. For primary, my DC told me they have different tables, and they are set for maths and english. For example, they told me there are two sets of spellings for the two different ability groups. Reading is more individual with book bands Year R to Year 2. In Year 6, DC1 has a top ability maths group taught by a different teacher, not just in the same class in a different table.

For secondary, DC goes to a secondary that claims they don't stream. Their tutor groups aren't in ability sets, but maths are in ability sets from Spring term in Year 7. They sit a end of year test in Year 7 and in Year 8 they are split into three ability groups. Non of the other subjects are set, as far DC can tell. For maths, they don't tell the children which set they are in. DC have to deduce by themselves who they are with.

If you are concerned about the overall academic results in non-grammar areas, don't be. There are many studies that show grammar areas do not out perform comprehensive areas. For example https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/28/english-regions-dominated-by-grammar-schools-do-not-improve-grades-study-says