New head wanting to move away from good SEN reputation

[yoshiblue]

We are currently looking at a number of secondary schools for my DS in Year 5 and has ADHD. One of our options is a non selective secondary who recently has had a new head.

I’ve heard through the grapevine that the head is trying to move the school away from having a reputation for SEN and attracting EHCP pupils.

For those who work in education, I’m keen to understand the reasons for this. It’s my assumption it’s probably to do with lack of money/resources to support these children? Maybe even an EHCP doesn’t bring the actual money it should to support a child? Is it down to pressure for results too? I know the school has joined a MAT a couple of years ago.

My son generally has low level SEN needs but obviously want him to be understood and supported. Sadly where we live, there are a lot of grammar schools and the other catchment comprehensive isn’t great so it is one of our main options.

Advice most appreciated.

I agree with many of the comments above and would like to add my experience as a teacher.

My class (mainstream setting) currently has over 50% of children with a range of complex additional needs - I just feel like I'm putting out fires all day to be honest with you. I desperately want to meet everyone's needs but to be honest the children with SEND take a lot of our time and attention leaving the rest of the class lacking in the true progress they deserve. I also really struggle with the fact that it is becoming more difficult to provide all the children with an environment that feels truly safe (emotionally and physically). At the end of the day I also seem to be spending a good hour speaking to parents. Then I reflect, finish all the work I need to do and end every day feeling like I've failed.

The current system is not inclusive and it is not working for everyone. Teaching is getting harder by the year and it truly is no wonder why so many teachers are leaving.

Those suggesting schools tell parents to kick up a fuss, please remember that a significant number of parents whose children have an EHCP are in no way capable to challenging the LA and threatening legal action. Some parents of our children with EHCPs are illiterate or have other learning difficulties themselves. Others live incredibly chaotic lives and struggle to even communicate with school, let alone other professionals. It is not remotely likely that parents in the village I teach would have the capacity to challenge the LA on parts of a EHCP not being met.

I am an Oxbridge graduate who is usually confident at speaking to anyone and advocating for myself and my children. When my DD got to the point of needing an EHCP, I didn't have the capacity to challenge the LA about her EHCP either as I was so worn out dealing with her issues and trying to access help for her.

I've just done the paperwork for a second SENDIST appeal (less than a year after the last one). I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

It's another extremely unfair aspect of the current system. You need a high level of education, money (for the private assessments when you can't wait 3, 4, 5 years for public sector ones), time and confidence to challenge it.

And people in your life don't get it which is very isolating.

Which is exactly why parents should be supported to enforce their DC’s rights. For a variety of reasons, some parents can’t or don’t feel able to advocate themselves. School should support, there are charities, CICs and other services that can support (and in sometimes run the case). If eligible, there is legal aid (and in some situations e.g. enforcing provision in EHCPs cases are brought in DC’s name so legal aid can be available even if the parents don’t qualify). If you aren’t eligible for legal aid but need independent assessments there are charities e.g. Parents in Need that can fund them.

Unfortunately, DC whose parents advocate for their DC and enforce their rights get better support. Without parents enforcing their right LAs (and some schools) will continue to act unlawfully. It shouldn’t be that way, but isn’t going to change anytime soon, so if parents aren’t supported to advocate and enforce their rights, their DC don’t get the support they require.

This happened at my little school, but I’m going back a few years. One child with a moderate learning disability and a very vocal, locally influential mother joined the school and all was good. The child had two wonderful part time TAs, all her classes already had their own TA and the teachers had enough time to cater for her needs.

A few years later there were three children in this tiny school each with two TAs and reception and KS1 had a high proportion of children who had extra needs and the quality of education the school was able to offer overall dropped.

A new head came in and made an effort to rid the school of its reputation of being particularly good for children with SEN because it wasn’t especially good for children with SEN anymore, and it wasn’t doing the best by the children without SEN either. The head was forced into the position of having to tell prospective parents that she didn’t think our school would be suitable for their children who had relatively mild learning or behaviour difficulties. This seems completely unethical and unacceptable but ultimately, it was the right thing to do by the majority of children.

It's just so sad we're in this situation though, isn't it? Where to get a child the provision they are legally entitled to we have to fight, fight, fight. It shouldn't be a school's job to help a parent persue legal action. Just teaching a class takes a primary teacher around 50 hours a week according to most surveys. Heads have their own workload. Where is the capacity to support a legal challenge or even the precursor to that meant to come from?

It is. It shouldn’t be this way. Sadly it is only going to get worse. But, not supporting parents and allowing LAs to continue to act unlawfully without challenge fails all DC. In the long run supporting parents to advocate and enforce their DC’s rights or even just signposting parents to services that can help (and in some cases not perpetuating the LA’s unlawful myths) makes the school’s job easier. They have more funding, more resources, better staffing, more support from other agencies, DC whose parents think SS is required are more likely to achieve this…

It's the inevitable consequence of the increase in SEN diagnoses. Parents and teachers are now so much more aware of conditions like dyslexia, adhd, autism which would never have received individual support in the past. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that any school system able to cater for so many individual needs would cost a heck of a lot more in taxpayers' money than the system we have now.

As a teacher, I was told in no uncertain terms that I was absolutely not allowed to support a parent in challenging the LA’s decisions re SEN support / school placement as it was a conflict of interest and indicated that the school illegally wanted to ‘get rid of’ the child concerned. Never mind the parent’s own SEN.

There is nothing stopping schools supporting parents, signposting to other services and giving accurate information rather than perpetuating myths. It does not amount to illegally ‘getting rid of’ pupils.

Then you need another teacher. Not a TA. In the US they have integrated classes where half the children have SEN and half do not, the class has 20 pupils and two teachers, one with specialist training. I believe these exist for general primary classrooms and for base subjects in secondary, depending on the area.

Do you think those children didn't have the needs before diagnosis?

@pristeen if you interviewed for a job as a woman, would you expect to be treated equally with the male candidates? Would you be angry if you were discriminated against during interview- asked about the way you would mitigate your womanly ‘disadvantages’ of bearing more likely to bear and then care for children, for instance? If you got the job after all that would you expect and demand equal treatment with your male colleagues or settle for making tea and hearing ‘jokes’ about blow jobs whenever you entered a room?

Should parents of disabled children accept discrimination on that basis more readily than you would accept discrimination for being a woman?

A school gets a good (academic) reputation in an area where great state schools are rare. Parents then all want their child to go there. Some parents equate great academics with great all round support. The % of SEND students who can name the school and attend from the outside area increases. The pressure those students (due to lack of adequate finance to support the teaching needs) increases the pressure on the teaching staff. Academic standards fall.

At the end of the day it is not really about the students but about lack of adequate resources to provide the level of support needed.

The thing is, average percentage of children with SEN in English primary schools is around 25%. It has been many years since I taught a class without a child with an EHCP, often 2 or more. If we say that a single child with 16 points on their EHCP means ‘another teacher’, then frankly every class needs two teachers and many will need 3.

Every child with SEN at any level in my class has at least 5 bullet points on their individual plan. Children with more complex needs often have many more. So for every lesson (normally 5 subjects per day - Writing, Maths, Reading + 2) I have, at a conservative estimate, 40 points to bear in mind, and these may be different for different subjects. Plus the planning of targeted interventions to ‘close the gap’, which are in addition to this.

Every child’s individual plan is, rightly, written with just them in mind. It doesn’t take into account anything in anyone else’s plan, nor anything about the needs of the other 3/4 of the class. It generates a genuinely unsustainable workload. Half size classes - so double the number of teachers - would still mean around 4 SEN children - 20 different points to bear in mind, a wide variety of different interventions - for every teacher.

@cantkeepawayforever do you have a link to the statistics showing the average percentage of pupils with SEN in English MS primaries is around 25%?

I ask because the latest government data (from 21/22) shows the % of pupils in MS primaries in England on SEN Support is 13.02% and the % of pupils in MS primaries with an EHCP is 2.27%. Obviously, some school will have more than this, but the majority won’t have 25%.

@drspouse No they don't exist in primary for every class or in secondary base areas ime.

Really sorry, that is entirely my error.

Pupil premium is 25%.

SEN in state funded primary schools is 16% in total, 13.5% without an EHCP, 2.5% with. https://schoolleaders.thekeysupport.com/pupils-and-parents/sen/managing/national-data-sen/

(I’m surprised it us so low, tbh - in very naice primaries but upper ks2 I have had at least 25% for some years - but with EHCPs taking so long to get these days, with delayed diagnoses etc, I suspect that lower percentages in EYFS and early KS1 may bring the average down.

Thank you, @cantkeepawayforever. I forgot about the separate gov page on SEN statistics that is linked to in the article you posted. The government compare schools pages where I took my figures from hasn’t updated to 22/23 yet.

A delay in getting EHCPs should only bring down the EHCP %, not the SEN Support %. Delay in diagnosis also shouldn’t lower the % because SEN Support is based on needs not diagnosis.

I think the percentage feels higher because of more DC with more complex needs in mainstream and with the reduction in class TAs. On top of an increase in other issues e.g. poverty schools are now picking up.

I think the percentage feels higher because of more DC with more complex needs in mainstream and with the reduction in class TAs. On top of an increase in other issues e.g. poverty schools are now picking up.

That is, to an extent, true - certainly in terms of ‘headspace / workload’, an extremely high proportion of my weekly load is taken in adapting the class work for 1-2 children with EHCPs, at least 7 with other documented SEN needs and then those who need adaptations for other reasons such as EAL, anxiety, absence etc.

However, it is also objectively true that it is years since I had fewer than 8 formally documented children with SEN in my class, in a very naice primary, a percentage of 25%+

In our LA I know of schools who have been told that their SEN support figures are too high and they need to reduce the number of children on the SEN register 🙄 because they are much higher than other schools in the area... So I take the government figures with a pinch of salt.... But actually there is a difference between my DS, on the register because of multiple medical issues which means he needs exam access arrangements but rarely needs additional support in class, and my DD who is autistic and needs more support on a daily basis. Both are on the SEN register but need very different levels of support.

I meant the average across MS primaries feels higher than it actually is, in response to you saying you are surprised it is so low. I wasn’t questioning you saying you taught classes with 25%.

Schools reducing statistics, even under pressure from the LA, aren’t helping themselves.