New head wanting to move away from good SEN reputation

[yoshiblue]

We are currently looking at a number of secondary schools for my DS in Year 5 and has ADHD. One of our options is a non selective secondary who recently has had a new head.

I’ve heard through the grapevine that the head is trying to move the school away from having a reputation for SEN and attracting EHCP pupils.

For those who work in education, I’m keen to understand the reasons for this. It’s my assumption it’s probably to do with lack of money/resources to support these children? Maybe even an EHCP doesn’t bring the actual money it should to support a child? Is it down to pressure for results too? I know the school has joined a MAT a couple of years ago.

My son generally has low level SEN needs but obviously want him to be understood and supported. Sadly where we live, there are a lot of grammar schools and the other catchment comprehensive isn’t great so it is one of our main options.

Advice most appreciated.

I worked in a secondary which had a reputation for an excellent SEN department which attracted lots of pupils. The trouble is that with limited resources not all the pupils could be given the attention/ resources that they had received in primary school.

What don’t you get?

We have numerous children like that in our mainstream school. Many have parents who want them to be in a special school, many have the LA or EP or other specialists say they should be in special, the children are gaining very little from being in mainstream and the additional work for the class teacher is immense. There are still no spaces in special school though. Your friend was exceptionally lucky (or this was some time ago) that she could just decide that ‘the time is right’ and she could change to special!!!

What’s appalling is that despite saying they should be in special (but can’t be as there are no space) the LA then give them enough funding to have a 1:1 for 2/3 hours a day! Who is supposed to change their nappy/manage their hoist/sort their PEG feed etc the rest of the time?!

My friend who was a very experienced teacher who had taught in primary schools for many years left teaching a few years ago as there were so many children with special needs in her class. The policy of accepting children with special needs into mainstream education benefited no-one and has ultimately led to all children being failed. She felt she was no longer teaching any child adequately and that children with special needs should be in a school that was able to cater for their needs adequately. She was tired of being kicked, punched and having parents scream at her.

On the flip side, my son had a full
time funded one to one LSA all through primary school. The TA was to support him, but that also means integration, so working in small groups that include him, playing games in small groups that include him, and also allowing him to work independently when he is capable of that.

Whilst this is happening, the other children in the class had the benefit of the TA too.

And of course if he was ever off sick, or had an appointment, the TA was still there, working with the rest of the class.

No it was only about 2 years ago that he got moved he is only just 7.

I thought the parents didn't want them in special but I got that bit wrong.

I gathered from the OP that she doesn't want him in special but wants the local school to have good send provision.

As ADHD has nothing to do with intelligence, I’m not sure why you think it would be hard to find a school to cater to his needs. People of all abilities have ADHD.

Err thanks for that @Simonjt I was merely calling out that I’m looking for both academics and SEN support. Sadly these two elements can be mutually exclusive. Some of the grammars around here have a very poor rep for SEN and it’s seen as an in convenience to getting results.

@ShellySarah not every child who needs a hoist or nappies, has a learning disability.

Agree with this.
Also the higher likelihood of a child being hit / injured if a fellow pupil has a meltdown.
And higher likelihood of disruption to learning due to classes having to be paused to deal with meltdowns.

My DD is autistic and very high ability. She attends a school that is well known for it's SEND provision. Resourcing is a huge issue for schools with above average numbers of children with SEN, but despite that, the school's ethos is what is important. I would rather have a school that says "we don't have the resources to support your child as we would like" than suggest that they don't need support. The school is open about the fact that if they had the resources, they would be able to do much more - but they do what they can. And the attitude of staff matters. Having teachers who go out of their way to understand her struggles makes a huge difference - teachers who know that with better funding she would have a 1-to-1 to support her to access the bits of the curriculum that are difficult due to her disability. But they can't provide that, so they read up on what the challenges are, why they happen. They research ways to teach that she can access. They adapt teaching - giving her a different question, or adding additional instructions.

For schools who understand SEN, there is a lot that can be done within the classroom to support students - whether there is an ethos from SLT that it is important is what makes the difference.

When you look around schools, ask about adaptive teaching - how do they adjust what they do in the classroom to support students? What is in place to help when it doesn't work and students get overwhelmed? How rigid are they with rules - are they flexible enough to say "for your child, the rules are different because they need to be"?

Ask subject teachers on open day about how they know what students with SEN need - if they say it is the SEN departments responsibility you know they don't get it. If they tell you what they do - that is great!

Schools that have an ethos where every student matters stand out :-)

My primary school has a reputation for being good with SEND children. Unfortunately the cuts to funding and provision for SEN means we have lots of children with additional needs and no money for the support they need. There is no longer specialist teacher provision from the Local Authority, virtually no SALT or Ed Psych provision, not e iugh money for LSAs to provide the support needed.

SEND provision is in a dire state, both specialist and in mainstream. I can see why headteachers are trying not to attract students with additional needs, as awful as that is (I also have two DC of my own with additional needs that require some support that is just not available to them).

We need a wholesale change - I recommend highlighting the issue to your MP, at least to try to raise awareness.

As to the above poster, we have 4 non-verbal children in my primary school, 3 of whom were in nappies still in Y1. Some parents want to try their DC in mainstream. Things go ok in Reception where it is mostly play based. As education gets more formal, most parents realise the setting is not suitable. They have now applied for our local special school and been rejected due to lack of space.

OP, we are in a similar position.

The character of the head is very important to the reality of a school for SEN DC and their parents. I am having to resort to sending my DC to the school where I teach, as I at least know for sure the management are good people who do their best.

I would join as many local SEN parents' groups as you can and ask for specific experiences they have had with different schools.

They have now applied for our local special school and been rejected due to lack of space.

so if they'd applied for a special school on advance in the first place instead of choosing the local primary then they might have got a place?

We have 2 comps in our town. One has way more EHCP / SEN than the other (3x or something like that.) One comp more or less sign-posts SN kids away to the other, and the SN heavy school has a reputation of being good.

But it causes resourcing issues especially with the SEN kids who don't have EHCPs and thus don't even bring extra resources. It also sucks in EHCP kids from out of catchment.

It must be a real quandry for schools.

Trust me

It's far worse having no TA at all.
I have a class of 30, of which 8 children have SEN, and half the time I'm alone.

It's hard.

As to the above poster, we have 4 non-verbal children in my primary school, 3 of whom were in nappies still in Y1. Some parents want to try their DC in mainstream. Things go ok in Reception where it is mostly play based. As education gets more formal, most parents realise the setting is not suitable. They have now applied for our local special school and been rejected due to lack of space.

I couldn’t agree with this more. We find pupils with high needs generally get along ‘ok’ in EYFS with as much of a 1:1 as possible. They are child-led/free flow so can do pretty much what they would like- there’s loads of toys and practical equipment. The 1:1 can change their nappy/take them off if they need space and give them 1:1 time during the phonics and maths carpet input sessions. When it gets to year 1, it very quickly becomes much more formal, with most of the day being adult-led activities as a whole class. The pupils can’t be removed from all of those sessions like before as that’s the structure of the whole day, so they end up unable to access anything and the gap widens. The KS1 classrooms don’t have the same set up as before so the pupils can’t just get out what they want or play noisily in the home corner. That’s the point it often starts to ‘not work’ and the parent looks to special schools. The chances of getting one at that point is remote. The child often has to fail for the rest of KS1 and sometimes KS2 before things have got so bad, something ‘has to be done’.

Inclusion doesn’t mean what it should.

My DSs primary school gained a great reputation for SEN so they attracted more SEN students. They became overwhelmed and ended up failing a large number of students.
A secondary near me has a small intake each year so is recommended for children with ASD. The school doesn’t have the budget or time to help those that need it so they are also overwhelmed and failing many.

Yes-in my experience, holding firm at preschool and saying you want special, you will only consider special and you will defer school a year/go to tribunal if you have to, is the way to get a special school place. The minute you agree to ‘give mainstream a try’, that’s that-you will not hear from the LA again!

I've never heard it said openly, but I think the parents of SEN children can be very demanding too - they have often had to be in order to get the needs recognised in the first place (and some may also have traits of SEN conditions themselves, whether diagnosed or not). Once recognition is achieved, they naturally expect a certain level of support to follow, and often they are unrealistic. Many don't know or don't care about the challenges schools are facing and will exacerbate the challenge by unfairly blaming the school/teachers. Facing such inherent negativity is draining for SEN staff.

Many children (including some with quite severe learning needs) have better long term outcomes in mainstream education. Better social skills, higher qualifications etc. The change when children with Down Syndrome were all basically moved from specialist to mainstream is striking (a big policy change I think around the 1990s?)

TAs can be paid more which reduces the recruitment issues.
Many parents don't want "those children" alongside their PFBs. SEN is not catching.

@Redlocks30 totally agree. I come across this a lot as once the kids who enter special school at 4 have their place they’re incredibly unlikely to leave so those brave enough to try m/s first are buggered until secondary where there are slightly more options.

The really odd one that happens sometimes is that a child applying later in primary can be rejected from special school for having too high or two varied needs - and so they stay in mainstream.

A child with severe behavioural needs AND moderate learning difficulties can find themselves rejected from EBD special school due to their learning needs being too great, and from MLD special school because their behaviour needs are too great.

So if they started in mainstream, they then have to stay in mainstream because the special schools available can’t meet their very high needs……

Many children (including some with quite severe learning needs) have better long term outcomes in mainstream education

Hmm, I would argue that this won’t happen much with inadequate funding.

Also, interestingly, I have seen in an Ofsted for the first time recently a concern raised by the inspector- with an action for the LA - that the school’s excellent reputation for SEN and consequent very high numbers of pupils with EHCPs was both putting undue pressure on staff and threatening the good practice that had gained them that reputation. Unusually perceptive for Ofsted.

My children have EHCPs and damn right I demand the provision in them is made, it's a statutory document. Same as I demand suitable full time education, it's a legal and human right.