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MATH - Is about spotting patterns. Not learning Times Tables. Opine.

162 replies

HarrowToCroydon · 30/09/2023 06:40

MATH - Maths is not about learning times tables, it’s about spotting patterns in everything we experience and using them to plan and invent.

From a 7 year old Guardian article,
Reckon you were born without a brain for maths? Highly unlikely | Students | The Guardian

Would you recount your experiences where you or your loved ones were traumatised by Math.

Reckon you were born without a brain for maths? Highly unlikely

Maths is not about learning times tables, it’s about spotting patterns in everything we experience and using them to plan and invent

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/26/reckon-you-were-born-without-a-brain-for-maths-highly-unlikely

OP posts:
HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 06:54

HarrowToCroydon · 30/09/2023 07:58

Same. Math or Maths. Endless debates ensue in intellectual circles about this.

No it doesn’t. In British English it’s maths.

HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 06:56

HarrowToCroydon · 30/09/2023 08:08

You are right, I did not learn grammar. I simply "Read Fiction", as I posted above.

What I meant - Richer High Resource Children, aka the ones who have more toys, more books, go out more, are not necessarily better than poorer or "low ability children" as far as Math is concerned.

Why are you conflating wealth with intelligence?

RampantIvy · 03/10/2023 07:05

*Why are you conflating wealth with intelligence?

I think she is talking about opportunities. There is financial poverty and then there is poverty of aspiration.

HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 09:01

The “but why show your working” crowd seem to forget that out in the after-school world there’s no-one with a teacher’s book with the “right” answer in it, and you often need to check yourself if you are comfortable with your numbers by going back over your methodology.

If you’ve just sat and thought “what’s the right hedge for this options strategy” and written down your “answer” it’s going to be very hard to check what happened if you’ve got it wrong.

I’d also prefer that structural engineers show their working ahead of a bridge or tower block being opened.

HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 09:02

RampantIvy · 03/10/2023 07:05

*Why are you conflating wealth with intelligence?

I think she is talking about opportunities. There is financial poverty and then there is poverty of aspiration.

But it was in response to a comment about those less able at maths.

TeenDivided · 03/10/2023 09:14

HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 09:01

The “but why show your working” crowd seem to forget that out in the after-school world there’s no-one with a teacher’s book with the “right” answer in it, and you often need to check yourself if you are comfortable with your numbers by going back over your methodology.

If you’ve just sat and thought “what’s the right hedge for this options strategy” and written down your “answer” it’s going to be very hard to check what happened if you’ve got it wrong.

I’d also prefer that structural engineers show their working ahead of a bridge or tower block being opened.

Exactly.
It is a bit like the BODMAS threads on here.

Someone will post something like 4 + 7 x 2

Some people will assert with no workings that the answer is 22, others that the answer is 18. No help to anyone.

But if someone says BODMAS - multiplication comes first, therefore it is 4 + ( 7 x 2) i.e. 4 + 14 so the answer is 18, then everything is clear.

Followed of course by 10 more pages saying nonsense like 'it wasn't like that when I was at school' Grin.

Brexile · 03/10/2023 09:15

I don't know any times tables and never have, in spite of rote learning of times tables making up most of what we did in infant and junior school. I "know" my two and ten times table, i.e. the pattern is so obvious that rote learning is presumably redundant. Strangely enough, the kids who were great at spotting number patterns used to whisper about it as if they thought they would be punished for cheating if the teacher heard. The teachers presumably agreed with my dad, who would roar at me "You don't need to UNDERSTAND it! You just need to REMEMBER it!" I think today's focus on pattern recognition is helpful for the majority of pupils who one one hand don't magically grasp maths by themselves and who on the other aren't so severely dyscalculic that no amount of patient explananation can make a dent in their incomprehension. The latter do exist, though, so let's not fall into the same old trap of assuming that those without a maths brain are being naughty or lazy.

ColleenDonaghy · 03/10/2023 09:52

HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 09:01

The “but why show your working” crowd seem to forget that out in the after-school world there’s no-one with a teacher’s book with the “right” answer in it, and you often need to check yourself if you are comfortable with your numbers by going back over your methodology.

If you’ve just sat and thought “what’s the right hedge for this options strategy” and written down your “answer” it’s going to be very hard to check what happened if you’ve got it wrong.

I’d also prefer that structural engineers show their working ahead of a bridge or tower block being opened.

Exactly. And in these sorts of roles, audit trails and scrutiny are vital, so you need to be able to lay out your work clearly so that a colleague can check it.

HarrowToCroydon · 03/10/2023 10:17

Soontobe60 · 03/10/2023 06:47

You sound like you’re living in an episode of the Good Life, with you playing Penelope Keith’s part 😂

Have not seen the Good Life, neither am familiar with Penelope Keith, will look them up.

OP posts:
HarrowToCroydon · 03/10/2023 10:19

RampantIvy · 03/10/2023 07:05

*Why are you conflating wealth with intelligence?

I think she is talking about opportunities. There is financial poverty and then there is poverty of aspiration.

Exactly this. Many a time it is discussed "Wealthier children who may not be bright have greater opportunities". While, "Poorer children who are bright have less opportunities."

OP posts:
expat96 · 03/10/2023 10:50

Hercisback · 30/09/2023 07:57

OP it's MATHS. Not math.

It's "math" in the United States and, when the languages converge, it's a lot more likely that it will be "math" in the UK than "maths" in the US.

Araminta1003 · 03/10/2023 11:21

My younger 2 DC are/were being taught via the Singapore Maths Method in state primary, England. https://www.singaporemath.com/pages/what-is-singapore-math

To think pictorally, deepen understanding, spot methods, then practice.
So you first understand, then you practise a lot (the latter part is ROTE but first you need to understand patterns, it is also very visual these days). Large part of Reception was spent counting every increasing numbers of e.g. Ladybirds or Frogs. The intertwining of the concrete and abstract and then the rote.

So timetables, understand the 2x, doubling/halving then appreciate that 4 times tables is double the 2s. Then onto the 8 times table. How does the 12 times relate to the 4 times table etc. Homework is stuff such as explain various tricks on how to solve the different times tables.

Number bonds are no longer just to 10= 1+9, 10=2+ 8 etc. It is now also how to make 9 in every shape or form. Take 52 - it is no longer just 50+2 - you also need to show 40+12, 30+22 etc etc in KS1.

I am fascinated by Maths, but never engaged in it properly myself beyond O Level. My eldest is good at Maths and really good at Music, Languages and Verbal Reasoning (aces that completely). 2nd kid also good at the former, but really aces Non Verbal Reasoning (quite a high standard at verbal reasoning as well). He could do all the high end UK Maths Challenges because his brain unlocked both Verbal and Non Verbal Reasoning (the latter being a different form of pattern spotting than verbal reasoning, it seems). My DD who always got cold feet with Non Verbal Reasoning at a high level, also eventually got cold feet with Maths. It is difficult to tell though what is a question of confidence vs ability. I suspect a machine does not get that, the lack of confidence.

So OP I think the Reasoning stuff is important and connecting both sides of the human brain somehow. How to do both successfully. Method/Trick and Rote as well, in the right combination. Have at your disposal various methods and apply 1, then the next until you see the pattern. Every human brain will be working differently and find one or another method easier. I think that is where we need to get to in teaching.

Let’s take a GCSE paper- why do they have to be able to apply and show application of just 1 method in a particular question? What if their brain works differently and there are various methods. You can be really good at Maths in your brain, but not understand the way the question is worded because the interlink written language/maths can be difficult. So you can get a kid that aces the questions that are just numerical but then finds the worded questions in English language harder.

My own personal view is that Maths is like Reading, should be practised daily in small doses so it becomes familiar, like a Language, to boost confidence too. This is why countries like India and China ace Maths and we don’t (this is a vast generalisation, obviously). Our state school had also started Chinese style daily exercising and brain breaks, run the daily mile in the playground, dance to the Music in the classroom etc. Apparently some Music makes kids learn Maths better, something in the rhythm?

I do not think that there is such a thing at being bad at Maths or even Music or learning a 2nd language. It is all about early exposure, good teaching, practice and the former 3 lead to confidence and pleasure.

What is Singapore Math?

The Singapore math method is a highly effective teaching approach originally developed by Singapore’s Ministry of Education in the 1980s for Singapore public schools. The method has been widely adopted in various forms around the world over the past tw...

https://www.singaporemath.com/pages/what-is-singapore-math

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