VAT on private school fees

[user1486984759]

So I’m going to get crucified for this, BUT, let me get this straight:

• We pay 45% tax, thereby funding state schools
• We do not get any benefits, and those that do get priority when it comes to state school admissions
• We scrimp and save from what’s left after paying 45% tax to pay for our kids’ education
• And now the state is going to add 20% to our school fees to fund state schools
• So we pay the most to fund state schools, but when it comes to state school admissions, we are last in line

How is this fair?

It seems that in this country, the best places to be are (1) a non-dom billionaire, or (2) someone who doesn’t pay taxes, gets all the benefits, and gets priority in state school admissions. The hard working PAYE earners are screwed by parties from left, right and center.

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps you think they have scoped it? 🤣 really?!
They hadn't scoped removal of charitable status until a few weeks ago and then had to u-turn on it. I doubt they have done any due diligence on VAT yet either. My local Labour candidate certainly isn't aware if they have! All he could do was to quote the IFS study at me, no further information/research etc.
Ultimately it doesn't matter if it can legally be stopped, just by tying the issue up in the courts could easily take months and cost the government more than they will re-coup.

I doubt anything has been scoped and educational negligence claims are on the rise as well. It isn’t in the country’s best interest to go forward with this policy. They have not even scoped the exact number of SEN children in the private sector. These threads show time and time again that middle class parents are paying out of their own pockets for their children’s SEN where the state has failed those children. Given the mental health crisis amongst the young and the evidenced and deliberate underfunding of state schools this policy is absolute bonkers. We all know it really.

They’ve probably scoped that already.

The same way they scoped out removing charitable status that they were bleating on about for years and now have dropped because it is too convoluted and expensive to administer?! I would be willing to bet my house on the fact they’ve done nothing of the sort and are simply saying this for the votes

The right to education is not synonymous with the right to a particular fee-paying school let alone the tax regime for that school.

Sorry to sound hard-hearted, because I do see the plight, but that's not the same as chances of successful legal challenge. Because the state would provide for those DC (and if there are no local state schools with the provision, the LA can choose to pay, and will have to cover the whole fee)

Also, remember as well for things like Control Orders just how much form Labour has for sticking out new measures and then letting the courts sort out ant legalities later. So I doubt very much this would hold up the introduction (and if challenge were after all successful, timings mean the mess is left to the next government)

(PS: expect to see a lot of "make a mess for the next government" in the coming months, Tories know they can't win, so are doing their damnest to make it so hard for successor that they only get one term)

I think they were using that as a tool - knowing the complications, but getting the momentum to carry through the far simpler VAT change.

(Hoping no-one notices what it means for appetite for rejoining EU, or even EU-lite)

Only time will tell what happens but in our (and other families in our small prep school) case, the damage has been done.

We can’t afford 20% vat on senior school fees so will be moving into catchment for secondary years and going down the state sector regardless. We can’t risk waiting to find out as our eldest will be in y7 by sept 2026

In a convoluted way it might help little prep schools then because they might attract parents who cannot afford 20% extra all the way to 18, but who want the best start for their children to get ahead.
They are the schools who are in jeopardy.

As has been discussed upthread, so I won’t labour (ha!) the point, but it would seem just as likely that they dropped the charity-stripping proposal because it’s open to obvious attack on the basis that they’re against charity status for schooling children but not against it for religious charities, animal welfare and many other debatable causes.

Appearing to value religion and dogs over children’s education would be a political difficulty that would never go away.

In a convoluted way it might help little prep schools then because they might attract parents who cannot afford 20% extra all the way to 18, but who want the best start for their children to get ahead.
They are the schools who are in jeopardy.

I think you are being deluded if you think this policy might help little prep schools. This policy will make little prep schools close.

Absolutely

I think so too. I fear for the long term future of our school. Selfishly, we won’t be affected so much as our children will be out by the time the trickle down effect from this actually takes effect but obviously don’t want to see the school close in future.

Our school is very small and the fees reflect this. In most cases, income is funding fees, not wealth so 20% is a massive hike and the majority of parents I speak to in both my children’s classes are looking at state secondary because secondary plus 20% is not affordable

Look it is just not going to work in reality:

• local authorities are underfunded and the waiting lists/appeals for EHCPs are a nightmare
• not enough “special school” places
• no schools with a smaller class sizes in the state sector for children with milder SEN
• NHS waiting lists for autism and other needs are way too long too (years in many areas now) - so people are paying privately to get a diagnosis. The Government cannot stop this happening because they do not have enough mental health professionals in the NHS. They have a problem between managing health care workers going private and a contracting out issue
• children as a whole group and adolescents with mental health issues is massively on the rise - they have data for this. These children are being failed in massive, overcrowded state schools when they often just need a bit more attention and a quieter environment
• data is still catching up on why more children are being born with SEN (older fathers and mothers, chemicals everywhere, far more pre-term births that are surviving, rightly so)
• massive state school underfunding for years given the above health needs of children

So many people are homeschooling or paying privately for such children. Where is the data on how many children there are who are being failed? I want to see the concrete data first! As a society, those parents are making a sacrifice to make those children future functioning adults, they deserve help. Not the opposite! Are they going to tax online schools as well etc? Tutoring for homeschooled children from a platform? The list goes on and on.

The Labour Party wants a one size fits all educationally. It is a complete lie and shambles given the state our children as a group are in post Covid and post massive class sizes and underfunding and health issues.

So fund the state schools and all SEN children properly and make a commitment to them including in the NHS and shut up with the diversion tactic of private schools. So fed up with both Parties!!!!
Our children deserve more from

I have friends who pay private because their DC have diabetes, severe allergies, severe anxieties, autism (high functioning kind although not allowed to use that term anymore) all that kind of stuff that state secondary is too overstretched to help with - they pay to have the onsite nurses during teenage years and someone who has the diabetes app on the nursing team. It is really not just rich kids in pushy schools.

@Araminta1003 you make a good point. Cousin of DD went private (same school DD is now in), he had some mental health issues. Through the school nurse (on site 24/7) he was able to access counselling + therapy within 7 days. Made a massive difference in his outcome.

Agree with @Araminta1003 too, a clfakily friend had issues with school refusal and their private school and support they provided was phenomenal. They were still primary age and unable to articulate why they couldn’t go to school but the school were so supportive and had relevant professionals to help. CAMHS pretty much washed their hands because they functioned well otherwise and couldn’t diagnose mental health condition.

School and parents working together achieved the best possible outcome for them

I see posts on here with similar cases in state sector and want to cry for the parents because the help and support is just not there and the poor parent is stuck in the middle

Schools like London Oratory and Grey Coat Hospital are classic examples of what is wrong with the state school system in the country. They are both great schools and have excellent facilities. However, they are extremely exclusive as admissions are linked to faith and church, and they are in areas where very few people can afford to buy good sized homes. They get a lot of funding from the state in spite of being restrictive in admissions.

I am sure most parents who send their kids to private would love to send their kids to London Oratory and Grey Coat Hospital, but they can't either because they are not (and don't want to be) followers of the faith supported by these schools, or they simply can't afford to but good sized homes close to these schools. That is the reason why these schools are dominated by the kids of politicians and other wealthy parents. In contrast, there are a number of other state schools in the same boroughs that are starved of funding and suffer, and a lot of parents who can afford private education would rather not send their kids to those schools.

The same politicians whose kids go to these exclusive state schools where it takes a lot of privilege to attend, now come up and say that parents who send their kids to private schools are privileged.

@NeoMatrix that is exactly my issue. And on the topic of Grey Coat Hospital , guess which politician sends his children there… drumroll Michael Gove who once backed the private school VAT.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/call-this-a-comprehensive-grey-coat-hospital-could-hardly-be-called-inclusive-unlike-the-local-secondary-michael-gove-has-passed-up-9188027.html

i wish we could just move on from this stupid posturing where politicians introduce policies which no real benefit (I posted earlier on why) just to play to the politics of envy. Instead they should insist that private schools did more outreach, Saturday classes and sharing of sports facilities. How about buddy programs with the local state schools? That may actually achieve something.

I meant some parents with several children might downsize from the more expensive bigger schools to the smaller cheaper ones.

I think parents with several children who might not be able to afford 20% VAT on top of schools fees might decided to move to catchment of a good state school instead of moving to a smaller risky prep school.

Hi
VAT on private school will please voters but will be problematic for many people..
just phoned local state school and sixth form college and it is too late to register for September 24 on top of that we live in London suburb and been told this morning there is no space!
State school It were already oversubscribe in year 7 a few years back

By this logic Labour would also levy VAT on all private healthcare. And property transactions in all oversubscribed state catchment areas as well as all grammar schools since it's no secret they are private education for free.

What will they spend the extra tax collected on and how will that improve state schools?

Are private healthcare providers declaring themselves charities?

@LolaandChai
"Only “education” is a charitable purpose in its own right. Sadly some people are too caught up in the politics of envy to appreciate that a well-educated society benefits the country as a whole."

I agree. So you should be DELIGHTED to pay towards the education of the 93% of the population who go to state school!

For the 1000th time, the fact that there is no VAT on private school fees is unrelated to the fact that (some) private schools are charities!

There is no VAT on school fees because education is exempt from VAT if it is provided by an eligible body (which a private school will be). It's nothing to do with a school's charitable status.

So, if a government is willing to change VAT legislation to make private education subject to VAT, the logical extension would be to also make private healthcare subject to VAT (the provision of medical services is currently exempt from VAT).

Because what's the difference really between paying for private education vs paying for private healthcare? Both education and healthcare are essential; both have state alternatives; and both promote inequality between those who can afford to pay and those who cannot.

@Believeitornot
Around a third of private hospitals are charities e.g Nuffield. Separately the provision of healthcare is generally VAT exempt.

Are the private tutoring industry currently subject to VAT, if it pay any tax at all?