VAT on private school fees

[user1486984759]

So I’m going to get crucified for this, BUT, let me get this straight:

• We pay 45% tax, thereby funding state schools
• We do not get any benefits, and those that do get priority when it comes to state school admissions
• We scrimp and save from what’s left after paying 45% tax to pay for our kids’ education
• And now the state is going to add 20% to our school fees to fund state schools
• So we pay the most to fund state schools, but when it comes to state school admissions, we are last in line

How is this fair?

It seems that in this country, the best places to be are (1) a non-dom billionaire, or (2) someone who doesn’t pay taxes, gets all the benefits, and gets priority in state school admissions. The hard working PAYE earners are screwed by parties from left, right and center.

Oh look, the average private school parent is in the top income decile! We’ll colour me surprised! Who’d a thunk it?

Oh yeah, that’s right… everyone.

And her aunt paid her school fees.

I was simply challenging your assertion around most private school parents driving range rovers and having cleaners. Most of us don't. Many, like me, are driven to that choice by being unable to afford a home in a nice enough area with good schools and are trying to do the best for our DC under the circumstances.

Times says that her mother paid the fees.

"She told reporters: “This is a tragedy. It hasn’t sunk in yet for my sister. She wanted to be a lawyer. She went to a private school and had a great future ahead of her. My sister paid for her education."

@Nellodee but if you are a teacher then you should realise that if this is an average/mean number then there will be many people lower than this. The small number of very/uber wealthy will obviously skew the data.

I’m afraid your anecdotes conflict with actual data. The report I linked shows most private school parents are in the top income decile. Of those not in the top decile, parents own property far above the value of state school parents, on average.
So, despite what you are trying to persuade me to believe, the evidence shows that private school parents have both substantially greater wealth and higher incomes than the general population.

The mother told reporters “…My sister paid for her education”

I’ve not actually started the mean income of private school parents, I’ve displayed the entire distribution of incomes.
Yes, parents with lower incomes exist, but as I stated earlier, anyone actually attending a private school is well aware of just how rare they are. I was right.

Must be different in a different paper then - the Times spoke to the aunt not the mother:

"Earlier, Elianne’s aunt, Marian, described the heartbreak caused by the death of her niece, who studied at a nearby selective independent girls’ school, Old Palace of John Whitgift School.

She told reporters: “This is a tragedy. It hasn’t sunk in yet for my sister. She wanted to be a lawyer. She went to a private school and had a great future ahead of her. My sister paid for her education.

“She was a lovely girl, loved gymnastics. She loved doing her hair. We are all devastated by this. We are a big family and we are all here for my sister."

There’s no point @twistyizzy
Some people always think they are right all the time even though they have no personal knowledge or experience and it is being explained to them by many who have lots of personal experience. Plus the maths has been explained.

What’s the point in lying
.This is an anonymous forum
.There’s nothing to gain

It's amazing how many of those who couldn't begin to afford to private school fees will see this an attack on aspiration though.

I await the next set of opinion polls with great interest after last weeks 8 point bounce for the Tories.

But Munchingaway, I don’t just think I’m right, I am right. I’ve done the research and posted receipts. At which point, you’ve initially completely misunderstood the statistics I’ve posted, and then said “Oh there’s just no point debating with some people.”

@Nellodee rare = 80% of DDs year group.
OK!
As long as you think you are right.
Like I said, I'm so pleased you aren't a teacher at DD's school.

This is just another mumsnet classic case of people in the top income decile thinking that they represent the median U.K. resident.

The polls on this when I filled it out earlier, just on this subject were running at 17%in favour. Can’t remember those that ‘ didn’t know ‘
Think I was sent the email for the poll yesterday.

Many will be worried about loss of places at grammars and good schools.

The chart is restricted to families with income at or above the 5th percentile.
So it doesn’t show the rest of families who are not in the top 5% of income.

It shows the extent to which participation is especially skewed at the very top of the income distribution. At the 100th percentile, about half of the children go to private school. At the 95th percentile, however, this proportion is much lower, with only 15 per cent of children in the private sector. While still much greater than the average, it is striking that only a minority of the affluent families in the top 5 per cent are paying for private education

to full text paper with the chart posted
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09645292.2021.1874878

I had a friend like you
His classic arrogant phrase when he couldn’t ‘win’ a discussion was

” I’m right, I know I’m right and that’s the end of the argument”
wow

It must be. Or I read too fast!

How much do your earn @Nellodee because there are a number of state school teacher parents at my DC’s private school?

You’re right on that. People are sold the lie of aspiration when social mobility is in reality extremely low. They would be better off voting for a party that pledged to help the 90%, rather than one which tried to persuade them that they could all become part of the the top 10% (how exactly would that work?).

@Nellodee but you don't know our household income because of haven't disclosed it.
Your prejudices and assumptions are atrocious.

Absolutely agree with you @weasel77 and this is another thing where @user1486984759 isn't correct.

I supported my own DC through private school entry exams in y6 and my nieces through the exams for Henrietta Barnet. HB was way more competitive - not that the actual exams were significantly more difficult but the pass mark was significantly higher and a performance that would have been a comfortable pass for an excellent selective private school was insufficient for HB. I think a lot of the kids who are in the marginal income bracket that is richer than "couldn't afford school fees even without VAT, so the question is moot" but not so rich as "VAT is barely a blip for us, we can pay whatever" are going to find it's not that easy to switch, and the parents will probablt tighten their belts, remortgage the house and cough up the extra £££.

@Nellodee it may surprise you that DDs best friend's father is a HoD in an outstanding state school. He won Teacher of the Year a few years ago but with the current state of education he has chosen to send his daughter to private school.

State school applicants are not being given preference. Universities are simply taking into account the elevation in grades that going to a private school or grammar school gives students. This is simply levelling the playing field.
In the same way universities are moving away from looking at things like hobbies or music lessons, recognising that these are the privileges of middle class parents and not everyone can afford to go to Scouts/drama etc or have parents who are motivated enough to encourage them to do DofE etc.
Moving to state for 6th form doesn’t fiddle the system as much as you think as universities look at where secondary education took place and home postcodes (does the applicant live in an area with poverty).

YouGov already have a set of polls regarding the public’s opinion on tax breaks for private schooling.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-uk-private-schoold-be-exempt-from-tax