Could someone please explain briefly how schooling works in England

[seb1]

I am in Scotland, going to school seems very simple up here your street is in a catchment area you have two (one catholic, one non denominational) local nursery/primary/secondary schools and you go to them, with the odd placement requests here and there. I am at a loss with these threads about picking schools, getting places, 11 plus (??), SATS (??), league tables (??). So could someone give me a potted guide so I can understand.

just put your head inside the washing machine on spin.
the feeling you get when you come out will help you to have empathy with people whose kids are at school in england.

just put your head inside the washing machine on spin.
the feeling you get when you come out will help you to have empathy with people whose kids are at school in england.

bump

For admissions it depends on the area where you live. In some areas there are distinct catchment areas similar to your description in Scotland. We live in Hertfordshire and getting into a school can be a nightmare. We live 400 metres from our closest school but were originally allocated a school in another town. It really depends on how over subscribed a school is and this can change each year depending on the birth rate and the schools published results.

The 11 plus is an exam that you take to gain entry to a grammar school. Only a few counties still have grammar schools, Cheshire, Kent and Buckinghamshire are the main ones but there are a few grammar school scattered in other counties too.

The SATS are tests that pupils take at 7, 11, 14. They are assessed in speaking & listening skills, reading, mathematics and science. The results are published in the league tables which also contain information on factors such as the schools value added score etc.

It's confusing me as well. I hae been here since June and I am at a total loss to understand it. All these bloomin tests they do as well.

It's simple here. You apply in the Jan for primary admission in September. You are much more likely to get your catchment area school but you can apply for any in the LEA. In our town you apply in October for the following Sept, there are 4 secondary schools none of which are ourstanding and 2 of which are IMO poor. But for whatever reason most parents still go for the catchment school and as none are oversubscribed you tend to get what you want. So it's easy. No 11+ or entrance exams, no selective schools. I guess there are private schools but it's not something we've even considered. In areas where there are some very good state schools, competition for places is high and it's all a bit nastier.

I think where you live plays a huge part in the school system.

In Hampshire we have no 11 plus and no grammar schools.

All kids in state schools take SATS at the end of each key stage to test the level they have reached in accordance with the national curriculum, with the exception of key stage 4 where you would take GCSE's.

I live in a country town surrounded by small villages. The main town has 1 infant school, 1 junior school and 1 secondary school. All the villages have their own primary school (infant and juniors in one school) and then come into the town for secondary school. Some of the village primary schools are church schools, some are state schools. No choice at all in which school you can send your child to, but then the town is too small (when you factor in it has 3 private schools) to sustain another school. Where ever you live in our area, you are only in catchment for one school. All the village primary schools are oversubscribed so there is no chance of getting your child into the if you do not live in catchement, which is the village itself. The nearest other secondary school is 8/10 miles away and is also oversubscribed, so you stand no chance of getting your children in their either. This bascially means in our area you do not have any choice of school, you can only go to the local catchment school. You only really start getting to choose schools when you live in a large built up area or in the few counties that still have grammar schools.

I know a lot of people in Scotland who pay school fees

That was helpful to the OP Xenia

seb.

It works similarly to SCotland. You go to your catchment school.

But, you apply and can choose to apply out of your catchment, should you wish of course.

There is a heirarchy to application requests. SO if you are in the cathcment then thats a high priority (though not a guarantee in an over-subcribed school), followed by individual SE needs (I think) followed by sibling already at a school, adn tehn erm, maybe feeder primary.

ANyway not overly sure on order so don't rely on me! But the rough idea is true.

Most people in England send their kids to the local school. They apply and get in.
There are exceptions.

11+ is not applicable to most people in England.

SATs are godawful tests that all kids do at 6-7 (Year 2 - Key Stage 1) and 10-11 (Year 6 - KS2) and 13-14 (Y9 - KS3) and then GCSEs at 15-16 (Y11 - KS4.

There is quite a lot of campaigning around getting shot of SATs particularly the KS1s.

League tables are a stick to beat school, pupils , parents with.
To encourage competition and give information to the consumers again.

IMO League table are only one measure of a school - based on SAT results (or GCSE in Secondary) If you want to know about a school you need to visit and look at other factors.

God that was long, I hope the odd bit helps.

Dead easy here too, no stressing as far as I can see.

Most people here get their first choice of primary school, although a couple are more popular and sometimes oversubscribed.

As far as secondary schools go, we have 3 and they all seem fine including one which is officially outstanding and one of Ofsted's best of the best etc. No grammar schools here either, thankfully.

It all seems to work out and everyone gets what they want - as far as anyone knows/remembers, no-one living in the town itself has ever failed to get into their first choice.

Many people, including me, only put one choice down for secondary school, there really is no stress about it. In fact two of the schools are right next door to each other, so some parents just let each child decide for themselves.

So it's not everywhere in England that you see the sort of stressing you seem to get on this site - in fact online is the only place I've come across such stress, my friends in other parts of England don't seem to have any hassles either. So I wonder whether the problems are confined to certain areas? It would be interesting to know.

The main difference seb1, as far as I can make out, is that in England the religious school s(and that includes CofE as well as catholic) are not fully state funded (only 85%? - with the rest from the church concerned), so that you don't have an official catchment.

Here in Scotland we are all formally in the catchment of both a catholic and non-deonminational school, so if you enrol at the catholic school, they are obliged to take you.

Although we don't do SATS, we do do Key Stage "tests", where the teacher wil get the kids to sit a test as and when they consider that they are ready. The kids may not even know that they have taken in test. The Scottish results are reported in the sense that "by x age, y% are expected to have passed Key Stage level z").

In England, everyone sits the same SATS at a set time, like "O" grades, and then the percentage that pass is published in the league table.

There really isn't an "English" system. It all depends on your Local Education Authority. In many places there is no such thing as a catchment area.

I thought Scotland had SATS too until a year or so ago?

No, we've never had SATs

No - never had SATS.

"In Scotland children follow the 5 ? 14 curriculum external tests are devised for each level with children tested internally by schools when the school believe the child will achieve that level. Tests are marked by the schools and reported nationally. Schools are given targets to meet based on previous performance and the pupil mix."

We do seem to have a much easier to understand system here in Scotland.

Easier to understand, and fundamentally better

I am still confused about the English way of things, despite living here for 7 years.

The other main difference I have found is that in Scotland, children spend 2 years in nursery whereas here, they spend one year in nursery and the next in reception.

it took me ages to work out that reception was the equivelent of P1 - and eeven longer to cotton on to the illogicality of the English system whereby if your child wasn't ready for recpetion, although you could choose to hold them back, all that would happen was that they would miss reception and still end up being the youngest in the year

I had to go round that one several times to make sure I was really understanding it, it just seems so illogical.

Me too AMumInScoltand. It just seems nuts. I had to ask a few times on Mumsnet before I believed that that is what happens.

me too - i had to ask what reception was (had visions of all the chldren standing around coffee tables, potted plants with teacher on phone saying 'i'll just put you throuhg')

My neighbour's wee boy has just turned 5. Technically, he should have started P1 last August. Instead they made the decsion to hold him back, so he will only start P1 this coming Agut, when instead of being the youngest, he will be one of the oldest.