Primary school admissions - 14 miles apart

[Ruralparents]

Hi all

I thought I’d join to mine your collective wisdom!

We live in rural Cambridgeshire, 6 miles from our nearest school in one direction and 8 miles from the next nearest in another.

Back in the depths of lockdown we had to a choose a school for our eldest to start at in Sept 2021. My wife teaches at the school 8 miles away and so we chose it because it would be handier. We didn’t know if our eldest would get in there but she did. And it turns out that her catchment school, 6 miles away, was oversubscribed.

Now, in 2023 our daughters school is over subscribed and our youngest has been placed at the catchment school. These two school are 14 miles apart! We lost our appeal and have now got the prospect of trying to manage a 28 mile school run, twice a day.

Cambridgeshire council don’t care, they are hiding behind their protocols and passing the buck.

We asked if our eldest could move schools to be with our youngest and they’ve refused because her year group at the catchment school is oversubscribed.

Out of catchment siblings get the same priority as in catchment siblings in Suffolk and Norfolk, but not Cambridgeshire. And when you live 6 and 8 miles from the two schools it’s fairly obvious you’re going to be at the bottom of the admissions list when either school is over subscribed.

Has anyone had any joy appealing on the grounds of unreasonable journey times etc? I just don’t think anyone should be made to do over 10000 miles a year on the school run. School transport hasn’t been offered but even if we can get it, someone still has to be available to put a 4 year old in a taxi and to collect them etc, it doesn’t help the logistics.

There is an ombudsman, but I think they have just rigged the whole system in order to do as they please and screw those who live out in the sticks.

Hi op, I grew up in rural farming areas and my school growing up had over a ten mile catchment, so I get the situation.

I chose a primary school for my oldest that was 12 miles away because it had very small classes and I felt he needed that. It was a 45 minute round trip for me and my nursery age child but it was ok. Kids had audio books and music in car and were fine.

A couple of other thoughts that might add some new perspectives. Where we live now there is a private primary (prep school). Parents regularly drive up to 45 minutes/an hour to get their child to the school. So again kids can be ok with this.

These journeys are hugely inconvenient to parents but kids mostly seem ok surviving them. I struggled with my drive as I work part time (even though obviously it was 100% my own choice) and at times we did have to use paid childcarers to do the drive.

I just wanted to also say try to think ahead to secondary in making the choice on the Suffolk school now. If you stay another 5 years will your child be able to get into the secondary their friends are going on to from where you live? Worth checking out.

Does the new school do wraparound care? Or maybe a local nursery/childminder offering school runs?

I appreciate there is still a commute involved but at least your younger child will have care over the period that is awkward without anyone losing a job.

Is your younger child summer born? If so did you know that he doesn't need to go to school this year but could start in reception next year, with permission from the LA?

There is a FB group Flexible admissions for summer born children where you could get lots of information and check out what the situation is like in your area.

As well as having demonstrable benefits for a summer born baby, it would give you some flexibility with making plans, possibly your eldest moving school, or with the birth rate going down every year you could work out the liklihood of your younger child getting a place next year.

It is utterly bonkers that any authority thinks having siblings at two different primary schools isn't a logistical nightmare for most and not actually the best for the children.

I know and so many people blaming the op, he knew the rules so tough. If that is the mentality of people on the panel no wonder the appeal was refused.

It is in the best interests of both kids to be at the same school. Obviously. What about parents evenings, school events etc etc.

Go higher op, bypass the dusty governors or whoever is deciding this stuff.

I’d be tempted to keep your son in pre-school and both on the waiting list. If a place doesn’t become available, your wife can resign and homeschool both children. But then, as a teacher myself, I am increasingly convinced that home schooling at that age is better for children then school. There are more and more families doing it and great resources out there.

'If a place doesn’t become available, your wife can resign and homeschool both children'

Omg.

As others have said you tried to play the game and lost. If the eldest’s school had 44 applications for 30 places I doubt that was an anomaly this year. You’d have been able to see admissions data for every year and realise you were taking a risk. In hindsight you should have got your eldest on the waiting list for the catchment school early on to up your chances of having two children in the same school. You were always taking a risk and have to own that rather than rallying against the unjust nature of the system. If you’re approaching your MP all the ‘system is against me’ stuff will not help your case at all.

Where you are now, I think the priority has to be securing transport and looking for the y3 appeal. Our class size has gone up to 33
and the extras are all siblings on appeal as it is the last thing are class needs (lots of existing high need). I’m not delighted about it but it does show that sibling appeals can be successful even where the school probably didn’t want to take more.

keep the youngest on tape waiting list for the other school and push for transport them.

it’s a shitty situation but I not sure what else you can do.

A mile away in Suffolk our 2nd child would have been admitted as a sibling without quibble whether in catchment or not.

That's not really how it works. They'd have been higher up the prior list but as the school is full, it's full. They'd still not have got a place if there wasn't one. Your wife, as a teacher, should have been more aware of the possibility this might happen that your average parent

If your wife is a teacher and is quitting her job, have you considered home schooling until the matter is resolved?

Op I think I'd be putting pressure on the council to provide transport for your youngest child regardless of what school you are able to get him into.

Have you contacted your local councillor or your MP?

Lots of ignorant and horrible comments on here, it is an issue in some rural areas and no doubt one of the factors lots of farms are ceasing to be functional as it doesn't suit families as much as it used to. Glad you have managed to sort something that feels more manageable, hopefully it sorts itself out over time, as has been said there's usually a fair bit of movement in primary schools. Although it's down the list a bit I don't know any teachers whose children weren't able to secure a place at the school they teach at (lots don't choose this option but for those that do) as they should.

Someone else bizarrely suggested this 10mins ago.

No, neither his wife nor the op should have to give up their jobs! The incompetent jobsworths making these decisions should perhaps be the ones to resign.

Would that not be counterproductive as the dc would lose both an education place and priority as a child of staff?

This has been an interesting to thread to read. I'm in Ireland, so it's very different.

One point that I think OP has missed (tho it doesn't pertain centrally to his dilemma): for most parents, regardless of location, they have to factor in additional childcare, wraparound care or adjust working hours. If you are based in an urban area with a 9 am start, you are often looking at a 730 am start to childcare, and not picking up until 6 or maybe later.

OP seems to regard the prospect of a childminder or wraparound care for the youngest DC as anathema - that's puzzling as surely he experienced some element of this already; and it's also completely normal. All my DC did this.

Finally, I am sympathetic to OP's situation but would say that many families have challenges, which will be different but no less problematic eg I'm a working single parent - for all my DC's primary school period, I worked 22km away from their school, which was already 6km in the opposite direction. Due to suburban traffic this was a nightmare so the best approach most days was a walk to a train, train, walk at other end, taking about 35 - 40 min in total & then for me to reverse that to go to work.

It was busy, especially doing that with 3 DC , and when they were very little and took ages to walk, but it never struck me as unusual.

Post Covid I've 2 wfh days where I can mostly do drops & sometimes pickups tho I've only 1 remaining primary school child. That feels amazing.

The point is OP sees this journey & travel in opposite directions as hugely challenging but there are often challenges for working parents. I would have been more bothered by having 2 DC at different schools and them not having a shared connection / experience.

Unless dc2 preschool is close to the dw school it seems odd that none will be attending catchment school and willing to lift-share or face same school transport issue. Who does the preschool runs as this is presumably not ft.

lots of OP bashing going on, so lots of you think those that farm our food shouldn’t have a family or a nice life.

OP would it be worth considering an au pair living in that can drive for a period of time. I had difficulties with needing to in the same place twice for a period of six months and that was my solution. Maybe you could do this until a place came up at your wife’s school?

@Ruralparents you seem to be getting an awful lot of replies based on assumptions that everyone who lives in the country is a lockdown mover who could live anywhere. Not that some jobs are rural!

The irony of all of this is that I wonder if you are a victim of a policy to spread limited numbers of teachers further, which will backfire if your wife has to quit.

I'm also rural but Scotland so rules might be different but this year they have taken away the requirement to retain places for those moving into area. In our small school this meant the loss of a teacher and composite classes across bigger year groups. Someone with a primary 1 and 3 child is going to be in exactly your position of schools miles apart.

Given your child is only four and it's not a legal requirement to attend yet, can you accept the place for an Easter start and then get both on the waiting lists for the opposite schools?

I do agree with contacting your local councillor. You could also contact your local paper. Ordinarily they don't care for admissions stories but yours highlights a wider issue. It is making it very difficult for the key workers likely very much in demand in your area to continue working in those roles. It's easy for people to sit here and say 'get a new job or a job working from home' but who is going to produce food or teach children.

It's nuts that you are both in effect employed by Cambridgeshire council but that your best bet is to go to Suffolk. Not a great message for the Cambridgeshire rural communities.

@Ruralparents I have no advice as I don't live rurally and my kids are now teens. But I just wanted to say, admissions is a total nightmare and I'd start thinking about secondary earlier rather than later. Even in London it can be difficult and we have all the public transport options!
I hope this works out for you and I think some people have rather jumped on you on this thread. You seem like a decent involved Dad trying to sort out what's best for your kid. That's what most of us parents try to do! FWIW my understanding is that in year admissions cancome up eg if someone moves so it may be worth just keeping your fingers crossed for that!

I’ve been through this (separated siblings) and my heart goes out to you, it’s horrific and nearly finished me off.

if you’re wife teaches at school A, I’d say that your best bet is for her to approach her headteacher/governors and request that your child is accepted there as an ‘excepted pupil’ (thus allowing them to go over PAN without having them to regard the infant class size rule). The addition of a simple clause relating to the children of staff would be fairly simple.

Your wife will have to quit her job? Put your eldest child on wait list for a place at the catchment school and sort out transport and a childminder. That’s exactly what you’d have had to do anyway when you purchased that house and had children. You were lucky to get a place at an out of catchment school and there was a high chance your second child wouldn’t get in so you’d have been better off putting your first child into the nearest school from day 1 instead of having to move her now. You may have to be back at the house to wait for transport (sure you start much earlier) or you get a childminder and children picked up from there on days your wife works. You’ve lost your appeal so not much you can do now but try and make it work.

Arable farming is very weather-dependent, and you can't always just leave something for a couple of hours because you have to do the school run.

I'm shocked that the sibling rule no longer trumps all others when it comes to admissions. I used to clerk some of the admission appeals in a rural county, and siblings always got priority for places. That was 20 years ago though, and I wonder if they've changed their policy now.

This must cause difficulties for loads of families.

lots of OP bashing going on, so lots of you think those that farm our food shouldn’t have a family or a nice life.

Where has anyone said that? 🤔

I work in a university. If I complained about my commute or school situation, would you then say, 'oh people that teach our young adults shouldn't have a family or nice life'

It's a pointless observation, unconnected to the matter at hand.