Primary school admissions - 14 miles apart

[Ruralparents]

Hi all

I thought I’d join to mine your collective wisdom!

We live in rural Cambridgeshire, 6 miles from our nearest school in one direction and 8 miles from the next nearest in another.

Back in the depths of lockdown we had to a choose a school for our eldest to start at in Sept 2021. My wife teaches at the school 8 miles away and so we chose it because it would be handier. We didn’t know if our eldest would get in there but she did. And it turns out that her catchment school, 6 miles away, was oversubscribed.

Now, in 2023 our daughters school is over subscribed and our youngest has been placed at the catchment school. These two school are 14 miles apart! We lost our appeal and have now got the prospect of trying to manage a 28 mile school run, twice a day.

Cambridgeshire council don’t care, they are hiding behind their protocols and passing the buck.

We asked if our eldest could move schools to be with our youngest and they’ve refused because her year group at the catchment school is oversubscribed.

Out of catchment siblings get the same priority as in catchment siblings in Suffolk and Norfolk, but not Cambridgeshire. And when you live 6 and 8 miles from the two schools it’s fairly obvious you’re going to be at the bottom of the admissions list when either school is over subscribed.

Has anyone had any joy appealing on the grounds of unreasonable journey times etc? I just don’t think anyone should be made to do over 10000 miles a year on the school run. School transport hasn’t been offered but even if we can get it, someone still has to be available to put a 4 year old in a taxi and to collect them etc, it doesn’t help the logistics.

There is an ombudsman, but I think they have just rigged the whole system in order to do as they please and screw those who live out in the sticks.

Exactly. It's the case for so many parents that they pay for the school run at either end.

So you think the rest of the children in the class should have their entire primary school education in an overcrowded classroom, because one set of parents tried to get both children in a more convenient school for them that was out of catchment, and their plan backfired on them? And that the fault lies with an “inconvenience jobsworth”? Who exactly do you think should not have been given a place at this school to make room for the sibling? Someone who lived in the catchment area?

All of this.

I would be disappointed for sure that my DC had a different primary school, for shared experiences, but I cannot understand his frothing over the distance and need for childcare.

There is no way on God’s earth I would consider putting a 4 year old in a taxi to school.

I wouldn't do that either. I would however pay for childcare where my child was collected & brought to school.

Surely many parents do this? I did.

This is so odd, I can't believe there's not a sibling element to their admissions policy ! Your wife should ask the governors to review their admissions policy, especially when there is a crisis in teacher recruitment and retention. Staff members' children come second only to "looked after" children in our school. Followed by siblings.

Would it help to speak to the Coram Children's Legal Centre, even if the one thing which comes out of it is the comfort of knowing that you did explore every possible avenue?

https://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/get-legal-advice/education/

I cannot get over the latest posts about farmers' special position & our need for food. (I'm from a farming background on one side of my family, as so many in Ireland are!)

Farmers are very important. I'll happily advocate for them in regard to the challenges they face.

But this parent is dealing with challenges of having small school-going children that most of us have, if we're working parents. He's not any more special for that.

Just like single parents will have certain challenges, or those with large families, or those whose children have disabilities. The challenges are varied and not necessarily equal but they exist for most.

Morning all, Mumsnet is busy on a Sunday morning!

At work at the moment but will respond to some of the suggestions this afternoon.

I wasn't implying he was above the rules for school admissions rather annoyed by the disregard of other posters and the suggestion they shouldn't live rurally/should just move to a town.
That being said better rules for rural areas as other LAs do as shown is this thread would be better.

There is... for children who live in catchment. Its non catchment siblings who are below catchment children. (And staff children between catchment children and non catchment siblings)

No the fault lies with incompetent jobsworths, not inconvenient ones.

Getting primary aged kids to the same school, particularly one where the dm works should be a priority, obviously.

Would the suggestion of legal action mean they would back down? You would of course have to follow it through if they tried to call your bluff.

From experience it is very inconvenient having kids at different schools. Not only because of commute but parents evenings, school events etc. having to take twice the time off work.

Put both kids on waiting list at other siblings schools. The oldest should have priority at youngests school as
has a sibling and is closest school to her home. Regardless mum will have same commute as she will still be working at the same place. and that is the real issue you have. You want them both where mum works.

you can start work at 5am as usual and take the 1hr (if that) (6 miles at roughly 30mph each way) to take the youngest to school.

Otherwise you can hire a nanny who drives to drop off and collect youngest. I wouldn’t be happy putting a 4 year old in a taxi.

Sadly we can’t all have our cake and eat it to.

One will eventually get a place in the other school.

Not ideal for the present time but oh well.

Apply for transport.
I know parents that apply knowing full well it isn't suitable, but with similar situations to yours.
Transport do offer to pay you for the travelling instead of the use of the school bus.

That sort of length school run isn't particularly long when you live rurally. My dc where doing similar school runs to get the the closest school.

I doubt your appeal will be accepted. Sadly, the maximum commute to a school was removed and replaced with unenforced "guidelines" about distance to school some years ago.

But, in truth, if transport is being provided, it doesn't sound like the real issue is the distance, it sounds like your issue is wrap around care, because both parents want to start work before the school taxi leaves. That won't be grounds for an appeal. You need childcare. We used to do an early drop off with a childminder who would give the dc breakfast and get them in the school bus. I found out council transport department was quite helpful in arranging for the bus to collect them from the childminder's house rather than ours three days a week, so you might be able to arrange something similar with your school taxi.

I will ask my boss about this next time I have a heavy workload! “Surely one of my colleagues can be spared and take my kids to school??”

Priority over whom? That’s the question here: over which children do you think this child should be prioritised? Over other local families who put their catchment school down as their first choice? Sometimes you gamble and try to play the system and lose. That’s what’s happened here. And no, it’s not at all obvious that teachers’ children should be prioritised over other children. And I say that as a teacher! That would further encourage teachers to work in better schools when already failing schools struggle to recruit good staff. You need to step back from this family and look at the bigger picture.

@Ruralparents completely feel your pain. We live rurally (North England) and DC both travel 12 miles to school. Completely different situation to yours and DC are now secondary age, but if I can give you one piece of advice it is to think long term rather than just the here and now…both DC went to our village primary, but having now moved to secondary both initially really struggled to settle in a secondary where other kids have a strong bonds from primary and they were essentially ‘on their own’. They’ve settled now in school terms with good friends, but it was an additional challenge for them both at a difficult transition time.

My heart goes out to you and your DW, the ‘system’ isn’t geared to to 2023 where the schools aren’t big enough for the population and more houses are being built without an expansion of infrastructure to support. My family have been in this village for generations and although we ‘choose’ to remain here, i see through my own employment/experiences how rural communities suffer significantly more than towns with schooling difficulties due to the infrastructure.

All I can say is think long term, good luck, and I hope you find peace with your decisions.

Hi OP. I just wanted to say that we had a very similar issue when in rural West Country, where they split the schools at 7, 11 and 13 (we were on a border). We had 3 children between 6 and 10 yrs old and due to some schools being full, we had to get 3 of them to schools that were approximately the same distances you're talking about apart, and for my eldest, that would only last 1 yr and then he'd have to move again, even further away. Our issue was also that we lived in the middle of nowhere (tied house also) and it took 10 mins to even get to the road that then split, to take the DCs in different directions. DH was tied to the location and did 14 hour days, I was hoping to work, but would have ended up instead driving for approx. 4.5 hours a day to get everyone to where they needed to be (using early clubs and late clubs to allow for the travel times). To cut a longer story short, I got a job at a local independent Prep school, where, they all went, with a staff discount. It meant that we broke even on my salary v fees and I was able to continue my career. It also reduced the travelling time for everyone, as it was a single journey in the morning and evening.

Hi OP.

I am a 2 school mum due to the crazy catchment usurping sibling rule (we moved here when DC1 was in year 2 he was initially in a school that was 6th closest and was pretty dire. He is off to secondary school in September).

Unfortunately every year there are stories of 2 school dramas because parents haven't read the admissions criteria and just assumed siblings will get their younger DC in that school.

Anyway, I was never able to get them in the same school, more lately due to choice (no point moving a yr6 child), but I did get them in schools about 1.5 miles apart so it was doable.

Basically, I was on top of admin and made sure I was in touch with the admissions team fairly regularly. I had each DC on the waiting list for all the closest village schools. I also made sure I got the news on any movements on the year groups I was interested in - the council is just so slow.

We put in an appeal in year 3 when the class size rule changes. We failed to get them in the same school but we got them a lot closer and they were 2 very good schools.

Good luck

forgive me if I’m wrong but your wife teachers at the other school so regardless if you moved your eldest daughter, your wife would still have to make that journey to work?

I think this is awful way of doing admissions, sibling link needs to be top priority because of exactly the nightmare you’re now placed in. Have you put your youngest dd on the waiting list for the school your wife works at? We didn’t get our first choice school for eldest dd initially, but put her on the waiting list and ended up getting a space early into the school year. People’s circumstances change all the time, they move away, home school, move schools closer to work commutes etc so I space may come up. You want to be on that list asap if you aren’t already! Luckily our middle dd has just got the same school (even though we’ve moved and are now out of the immediate catchment) because sibling link is the top priority (thank god.)

It’s not just the extra distance needed to travel it’s the logistics, different term times, inset days, uniforms etc. I feel for you!

The issue with giving all siblings priority, regardless of their home address means children living very near a school can lose out on a place to other families who perhaps have moved into the catchment of a desirable school for the first child, then moved further away for a more desirable house as soon as the first child has started. You can then see two, three or more siblings who live miles away gaining a place over other children living within walking distance of the school.

Another issue associated with new housing developments can be a child living further away may gain a place at a school when the development is still growing, but as families move into the development the distance / catchment will reduce as more children live nearer the school, so if there is a sibling priority without any linked distance criteria, local children are displaced by those living further away.

I’m a bit confused by your post because I too live in rural Cambridgeshire (NC for this) close to the Suffolk border. I don’t know anyone that didn’t get into their chosen school because apparently the i takes have been very low this year. So I do feel for you because you must have been very unlucky

also, are you trying to say that sibling priority isn’t a thing because it is? The application policies are very clear and don’t think any of how this works should come as a surprise

our catchment school is 8 miles away via a very shitty road so it takes a long time, while there is a school much more convenient for us just 2 miles away.

we applied for a school that is definitely not in catchment, in fact all of our choices were more convenient but not in catchment. One of them is famously always popular and oversubscribed. But we knew that was the risk?

as for your wife working in a school. It is annoying and unfortunate but the lady that teaches my son in preschool couldn’t get her own children into that preschool - it’s just how it works sometimes if you don’t live there! There are so many people you could argue need to get a place in certain schools because of work and that can’t leave to do the school run - GPs, dentists, nurses, policemen etc all have work commitments and don't generally live close to where they work. I’m sorry because I know it’s difficult but you aren’t the exception

I think you’ve got a rough ride here. To a certain extent perhaps you being rural is a red herring in terms of school day times actually being impractical for most working parents which is crap and which I’m victim of! However there’s no denying that rural communities are declining, rural schools often lack teachers and the farming community is essential to our population. It’s counter productive for families to be put off farming or teaching!

Lack of affordable wrap around care at appropriate times is also a pain!