Super selective grammar school or Winchester College

[Pomonasky]

Hello mum's net,

My DS has just finished year 6 and was offered a place at a very selective London grammar school starting in September. We wanted to keep our options open (I wasn't sure if he would be accepted at the grammar school) so we also applied to some independent schools including boarding schools.

He was offered a place at Winchester College starting in year 9 , the cost is an issue for us so we thought the grammar school would be our best option. Now my parents in law have offered to cover the fees ,if we want DS to go there. His current prep school could keep him until year 8 and prepare him for the Winchester entrance.

Has anyone faced a similar dilemma? I am not 100% convinced about boarding but DS will be almost 14 at the beginning of year 9.

He is our only child and I don't have experience of the high school system in the UK.

My advice would be the super selective grammar. My oldest son went to a famous boarding school and my younger son to a grammar. Absolutely no comparison between the two, the grammar won hands down and aside from the brilliant education was a far better preparation for the wider world and gave him a far broader friendship group.

And I got to see him every night.

Another with a very unhappy brother at wincoll. I don’t see why you would not choose to keep him at home and go to the excellent grammar, with friends local to london, especially given that it will now make it easier for him to get into the most competitive unis and courses because he will be applying as a state school pupil (but almost certainly better educated than at Winchester)

"especially given that it will now make it easier for him to get into the most competitive unis and courses because he will be applying as a state school pupil"

This is not true, grammar and private broading school will not subject to any contextual offering.

Keep your options open for now and pay the small initial deposit, that would be my advice.
London superselective boys’ grammars tend to be heavily focussed on the Sciences/Maths with an over representation of Indian families. That may be perfect for you and your child, but it does not suit every family for differing reasons. Suited my DS’ perfectly for differing reasons, but some did not like it.

Not true - my DD20 got into Durham last year with a contextual offer, after going to a grammar.

Contextual offers vary from uni to uni, and 2/5 of her choices gave her a contextual as they decided based on her postcode.

No the london superselctive grammar school the OP in consideration , which is full of middle class ACRON postcode and has the lowest FSM of the country.

Unless he has a specific interest that can't be catered for except at Winchester I'd choose grammar assuming they are doing well regarding the staffing issues plaguing state schools and have a supportive and active PTA which makes a huge difference in the state sector.

You can use the money saved to pay for the cocurriclar interests he wants to maintain.

Thank you all for your responses. It's helped to our decision easier.

*It's helped to make our decision easier.

Best of luck to your DS @Pomonasky in September.

You are lucky to have this choice! I would take up the grammar place and use it as a prep for Wincoll's entry. In terms of academics and uni entry, they are comparable (both excellent) alternatives, so you should focus the social/boarding aspect. Personally I would go for Wincoll as I believe boarding offers so much more as a life exprience, the quality of friendships for life are in a totally different league, and Wincoll is going co-ed anyways. But ultimately is is a very personal decision.

Try to visit the schools as many times as possible, and pay attention to how the kids behave with each other ideally without adult supervision. You will likely form a very strong gut feeling. Remember that MN has all kinds of posters some with vested interests, which may differ from yours.

Good luck!

@BrightNow I have to disagree with you on the quality of boarding school friendships being in a “totally different league”. I boarded, my dh didn’t and one of my children did and two didn’t. In my wider social circle it is probably 50/50. I have never seen any link whatsoever in terms of the strength of life long friendships and boarding versus day school.

Although I guess my school friends and I do have the unifying memories of how utterly horrific our school was!

Winchester like to perpetuate the nonsense of friendships for life, I'm sure other schools also do this. DS is much closer to boys he was at his London 6th form with. Most of the boys he was at Winchester with haven't kept in touch with each other in any real way.

It's not a good environment for teenage boys and while most will grin and bear it ,they would rather be somewhere else. Children at boarding school become very good at telling their parents what they want to hear. This is usually due to hearing how fortunate they are to me there.The school reinforce this on a daily basis while ignoring the needs of the boys in their care.

Not exactly the same but DD got an offer from Sevenoaks for Y7., DD chose the local grammar. she thrived there.

Offer from Westminster for sixth form but chose to stay at her grammar. Interviews turned out quite helpful for future endeavours (Uni interviews etc) which we didn’t realise at the time.

We are using the savings to mean she doesn’t have to pay for her Uni costs.

We’d been saving for 5 years as could not afford full private school but put about third to half the difference away each year. Don’t know results (next week) but she has an offer from Oxbridge.

Congratulations to your DD@PettsWoodParadise , best of luck next week. Enjoy the celebrations !

Thanks @Pomonasky best of luck with your choice for your DS. I have always been both in awe and grateful of choices.

Very funny, yet unhelpful. I am fairly certain Winchester - or any boarding school dor that matter - doesn't do this. This is my own life experience. Day students are akin to a colleages at a job. Boarders are like brothers sharing a room. Its not the same league, even if some colleagues are like brothers, it is the ex eption not the rule.

You cannot compare the two, and repeating the same nonsense like "Wincoll does this and that on a daily basis" will not make it true. It will simply make you look like an untrustworthy and utterly ridiculous troll.

So does that mean it doesn’t apply to Eton then where from day one you have your own room?!

NC for this but I actually have had a DC at WC and another at an excellent superselective grammar. Both now are happy, normal and thriving young adults. Choice of school for each was not dictated by money but their personal preference. They were both very busy in their extracurricular activities but for the DC at the SS grammar this was mainly out of school.

The DC at the SS had some inspiring teachers particularly for their A levels and has close stable friendships from school. However I would generally describe the education there as more restrictive, relying on natural curiosity and family experience to go beyond the national curriculum outside school. WC exceeded expectations for delivering intellectual and cultural breadth that is now self sustaining, The WC DC also had to tackle much harder material with ‘robust’ marking which avoided the trap of chasing perfect marks rather than learning.
I cannot fault the pastoral care my DC had at WC and would echo that the friendship bonds and circle is a particular strength of the boarding experience. It would of course be naive to expect that all DCs would have an equally positive outcome at WC but IME , but I think the unhappy PPs in this thread are outliers rather than the norm in their experience. There were definitely a few troubled boys, some obviously due to family issues. Plus a contingent of boys who were there because of parental ambition but who were n’t really suited to getting much out of the school. Of course there will be some less good teachers at WC and parents can’t micromanage (during term time at least) if their DS is one of those who does n’t want to put in the effort.
So OP just follow your’ and your DS’s instincts. The difference in education won’t matter for exams and university choice but if at the end of Y7 you feel your DS is getting bored at QEB then WC may be the better choice for him.

DS went to a Kent Superselective and had contextual offers from Bristol, Durham and Bath. He actually ended up at Oxbridge.

£230k of fees would go a long way to covering all Uni costs and a hefty house deposit.

The contextual offers conditions are clearly laid out in the universities admission pages above, the process is getting mature every year. Being a super selective grammar school won't get you contextual offer automatically, the determination factor is applicants home postcode when doing secondary school (acorn) , where you get your GCSE grades (some in the past only say state school but now more and more require just the state school but now more so emphasis on low achieving state school esp Oxbridge) and outside school factors such as if the applicant is a carer etc. My point earlier is students in QEB will not likely belong to qualified Acorn postcodes or listed qualified school so higher chance to get contextual offer being in the school is wishful thinking.

Just listed all the latest contextual offer conditions for the schools.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/

If you apply from Kent superselective nowadays it won't qualify
"You will be eligible for a contextual offer if you apply from an aspiring state school or college. We consider a school or college to be aspiring if it has low average attainment and progression to higher education statistics."

https://www.bath.ac.uk/guides/understanding-contextual-admissions-for-undergraduate-applicants/
School attended is now considered by Bath doe contentual offers.

https://www.durham.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/how-to-apply/what-happens-to-your-application/contextual-offers/
Stare school attended is one of the two minimum factors needed. But the applicant need to be qualify another non school factor.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/decisions/contextual-data
"The performance of your school or college at GCSE.
Your attainment at GCSE within the profile of GCSE attainment within your school or college.
The performance of your school or college at A-level or equivalent level.
The percentage of students eligible for free school meals at your school or college at GCSE or equivalent level."
Kent superselective grammar will qualify nowadays.

Yes our home postcode qualified him. But not sure it would have been the same if he had been at Winchester, to be fair that was never on our radar.

“But not sure it would have been the same if he had been at Winchester“

He probably will based on the criteria listed in the university above. And the students attended Winchester live in support postcode probably are bursary students.

My two points:

1.There is no advantage on getting a contextual offer between attending a high attainment state school (grammar) vs a selective private school. Both schools won't get additional credit.

1. The essencial criteria is whether the applicant/family belongs to the supported social category. In this sense the probability of a student belong to such category is low for either Winchester or QEB.