How do people afford private school?

[PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain]

Following on from discussion House of Commons today, how do people afford private school fees? Is it by sacrificing holidays and other luxuries? That wouldn't by you a year, but did she perhaps mean a term? How do you pay for the other two terms?

I'd appreciate it if posters refrained from speculation. I'm interested in people's actual financial circumstances and decisions.

The state pays for some children and some are paid for by charities. Some of the kids can't go home because they're not safe there., or their parents can't cope.

No grandparent help. I pay it from my earnings- management consultant. And consciously stuck to just one child. Two would not have been possible,

I'm very lucky to earn enough that it hasn't involved any day to day sacrifice. I guess I could have gone on more expensive holidays and not worried about prices, but we still have a good life.

Main sacrifice is I could have retired a few years earlier if I'd sent her to state school. But that's worth it I think.... not sure. I'm less impressed with the school than I thought I'd be.

I can't imagine being so scared of the schools over 95% of the population attend that you think it's better not to have a child than use one.😢

Do you mean less than 95%? given that 7% are privately educated. I have no idea how many are home-schooled or school refusers (a good uplift since covid I believw).

They MAY be posted. But may not. I know plenty of cases locally of officers who barely step out from behind the wire for but whose children are taxpayer funded to go to our local private school.

We used to work in oil and gas and could get posted at the drop of a hat (or risk a career slump), and the boarding school benefit disappeared decades ago.

If it wasn't for the military and the offspring of doctors our local
Private school would be real trouble!

We chose not to move and keep our mortgage repayments low. We have a 2 bedroom apartment where we’re very happy but always planned to buy somewhere bigger one day. We weren’t able to have more children and so we had the means to send our DS to independent school by not upsizing our home.

We have always had professional roles with a good income, but we are by no means rich. We don’t do big holidays every year and save a year in advance for school fees. We also make the most of activities included in the school fees, eg extra swimming lessons. My son plays at the local town football club too but no other outside or expensive hobbies.

My son’s school is not a traditional or “old money” place really. Most parents we know really have to budget and keep modest mortgages and infrequent international holidays etc. About a third of his class are single children whose parents, like us, couldn’t pay for private for more than one, and there are a number of parents who own small local business. 2 families are very well off and one child’s fees are paid by grandparents.

In our case, the small class size has been amazing for our son’s confidence and he loves sport, which is very well catered for there. That was the crux of our decision and is worth the budgeting for us.

DH earns enough for us to live on.

My wages up until the point of secondary school was spent mainly on things for DC and holidays.

I'm happy for all of my wages to go on school fees.

Others I'm sure find that ludicrous but I'll sacrifice holidays for a few years. Although luckily for us we are HPB members so we can holiday very reasonably.

Single parent here with two in private school. I have no mortgage plus make just close to 6 figures. Its a stretch as I have nothing much left over each month after bills etc but the children are really happy. Most parents in the year group have one parent working in a very senior/well paid role, wife at home.

Fees are frquently funded by wealthy grandparents.

If the grandparents needed to tax plan for inheritance tax and give away their wealth during their lifetime, it is better to pay for the grand dcs' private school, than to pay off their dcs' mortgage or give cash gifts to their dcs. This is because if the dcs divorce, their ex-spouses can walk off with half of the grandparents' money/gift when assets are split. But ex-spouses cannot walk off with the school fees which have already been paid.

Money and a lot of it!

Our fees were £14,000 increasing to £17,000 so much cheaper per year but I think it's due to location, I was not in full time work so my husband pays. Our school requires upfront payment for the year but you can take out a plan which means you pay monthly over the school year. If you are used to paying for nursery fees it's no different except the uniform and trips are more expensive.
We took our oldest out and he has excelled in public school but everyone is different, our middle child is an introvert and prefers a more intimate setting.

We've been told that the impact of vat on parents will be around 16%, not 20 and could cause a decrease in numbers of been 5 and 20%.

True. Being charged VAT means private schools can claim it back just like comprehensives can so I think we’re looking at a 5-10% fee increases. Many schools are already planning additional measures to avoid increasing fees too much - eg increasing class sizes, cutting burseries to State Kids (or making them available to top 1% only), preps creating private secondaries to keep kids longer, to delaying capital purchases until the general election.

Also the government has a vested interest in NOT allowing too many private kids to return to state schools, so maybe UK resident parents will eventually get a tax efficient mechanism to pay for fees.

I’m sorry what?

private school is objectively, factually a luxury. It’s a luxury because you don’t need it and in taking it you opt out of the free education the state provides.

According to the definition of VAT this absolutely, unarguably would constitute luxury spending.

And my 2 are in private i’m not some keyboard warrior. But your argument really makes no sense.

There is clearly a lot of Angst amongst private school parents about this VAT business. I think for those in Year 9 onwards it isn’t going to affect too much as it will take some time to implement? So let’s say General Election by Jan 2025 then at least until the Autumn Budget of 2025 probably later.

However, for people considering private education right now because of all the rumours about the issues in the state sector it must be pretty confusing? We have had a great state school experience so far, including during the pandemic, but who knows what will happen in the next 5-10 years. I wish the Labour Party would come up with a concrete plan to improve state education and the recruitment crisis in parallel.

Speaking to some friends as well, some are worried that they started older children off in private schools and cannot now afford to do the same for their siblings. That must be hard too. My children would be quite heartbroken if I had to move them out of their schools with all their friends so I can understand that it seems like a worrying thing for many parents.

If your view is that the we only need a basic state education (consistent across all state schools) for 6 hours a day in school terms and any education/childcare beyond this is a luxury then yes - that is consistent with VAT being charged on private schooling and it being a luxury. Everyone and their children would survive with just this basic schooling (even if it limited working options/meant children didn't meet their potential)

I disagree, because I think
a)Childcare to support people working (particularly women) and paying income tax is not a luxury.
b) Children should be able to access education beyond a basic consistent state education to support their future without additional tax given the benefits it has for the country as a whole.

I spent some time reading up on the current VAT sysyemfollowing the comment about swimming lessons as I was very shocked they have to charge VAT.

The current VAT system has a position that is part way between the two positions. So

A) Childcare is exempt for kids under 8, and some over 8 depending on the activity.
B) education and tuition in subjects that are currently taught in schools and universities is exempt (e.g. Maths, English, Science etc)
C) Activities that are not taught in schools, e.g. dancing, swimming etc are not exempt and VAT needs to be charged.

Private schools carry out activities that fall under all 3 categories. But some of the activities that were identified as making private schools a luxury in the initial post, are not considered as luxuries in the current VAT system. Although some are (e.g. swimming lessons)

My view is that none of those activities should be a luxury (and VAT charged) whether they are provided by private schools, or someone else. Others disagree.

I just think 'private school is a luxury' slogan, with no exploration of the impacts on other areas of the childcare/education system is misleading.

And for me the most luxurious bit of my kids education, is not access to activities/wrap around care/facilities/teachers which larger local state schools can all offer, often to a higher standard or variety.

The luxurious bit is to be in a school where they have the tools to maintain reasonable behaviour and discipline and where individual children are celebrated. It makes me really disappointed that is not available to all children and it is considered such a luxury it should be taxed. But unfortunately that is the system we are in.

@Toansweraboutfees - I do wonder if private schools start breaking fees down into basic education, extras, every extra activity, grounds maintenance, lunches etc in a transparent way whether they will be able to charge VAT? I mean how can you possibly charge VAT on a child being taught Maths and English? It does not make any sense.

In all of this, there is probably also a bit of private schools going over the top over the years in passing on charges and running in a “fat” way. So in some respect, if it they have to watch their finances more closely, it may not be a bad thing for parents in the long run. I am always amazed at how our state school offer what they do given the small budgets. There must be quite a bit of wastage in schools charging parents 25k a year.

In all of this, there is probably also a bit of private schools going over the top over the years in passing on charges and running in a “fat” way. So in some respect, if it they have to watch their finances more closely, it may not be a bad thing for parents in the long run. I am always amazed at how our state school offer what they do given the small budgets. There must be quite a bit of wastage in schools charging parents 25k a year.

Far and away the biggest cost to any private school is the staff wages bill each month. Smaller class sizes, offering A-levels even if only 1 or 2 students choose it, and having the staff to maintain often extensive sites doesn’t come cheap. If they have to cut back, it will mean not offering, for example, A-level Classics, or reducing the amount if extra curricular choices.

@Araminta1003 “I mean how can you possibly charge VAT on a child being taught Maths and English? It does not make any sense.”

Because they are being taught maths and english in a specially curated environment, with better (most of the time) facilities, catering, smaller classes, few or no SEN kids to divert the attention of the teachers and a peer group which excludes most of the population.

Again, my kids are in private, i’m not a class warrior, but it to me is blatantly obvious that i’m buying my kids a massive amount of privilege, it’s not a right to which we are entitled.

No SEN kids to divert the attention of the teachers and a peer group which excludes most of the population

Private schools are full of SEN, it’s seemingly the only place where a child’s needs are paramount. In my children’s year groups alone there are at least 5 children that I know of, in each class with interventions for dyslexia, ADHD, Autism, tic disorders and other more complex medical needs and this is a mainstream prep.

The vast majority of the children who have joined mid year are from local well renowned outstanding primary schools. Schools which couldn’t adequately support even the mildest of dyslexia.

SEN children do not “divert attention” from teachers, if their needs are being adequately met! Meet the need then you’ll have a child who is engaged and eager to learn.

@NancyJoan - DD’s grammar just offers Latin as a twilight course after school so you pay termly for it and some years they even run the Latin/Greek combo depending on demand and most who sign up then do the GCSE too. Private schools would just have to charge parents extra for smaller courses.

@SpaceRaiders ok ok we are talking about differenf definitions of SEN here. I obviously don’t mean kids who are dyslexic type ‘SEN’ I mean kids who have proper behavioural problems, severe autism, learning disabilities etc. Those kids are absolutely weeded out of private schools or don’t pass the entrance assessments in the first place. I don’t know if your kids are in private but if they are, take a look at the cohorts of your local comp at some point and you will absolutely see kids with a much higher degree of needs. That’s just a fact.

I say this with a degree of confidence as my one son is autistic so I am highly familiar with how prep schools who pride themselves on SEN provision run a mile when a genuinely SEN kid is in the cohort.

@KingsHeath53 The terms you’re using are hugely offensive. What does “genuinely SEN” even mean? I don’t get your point is because children with high support needs shouldn’t be in mainstream state school as those settings are rarely able to meet their needs. It’s absolutely criminal that in order to get any level of support a parent has to take an LA to court. And let’s face it many parents have neither the time nor expertise to navigate an EHCP process, so it’s corral the kids in a non selective comp and hope for the best.

My kids are in private. Like I said our school has “genuinely SEN” with learning disabilities. No behavioural issues, the sweetest kindest kids you could ever meet. They have had 1:1 support throughout funded by the state, probably school fees too but I didn’t pry! I also know multiple Autistic and ADHD children of varying needs all confirmed with a diagnosis. Selective private schools will refuse any child who doesn’t pass an entrance exam SEN or not. Much in the way grammar schools do.

I’m a first gen immigrant. I don’t subscribe to this idea of choosing private as a way of hobbobbing your way to the top. I’m a single parent and my face doesn’t fit so that’d never work for a start! I choose the school based on its ability to nurture and support my neurodivergent child. My dc are already at a huge disadvantage. And I’m giving dc the best possible start by accommodating their needs, much like others do with tutors or moving next door to an outstanding school etc. Only for SEN parents often it’s a choice many of us have had to make reluctantly. Without it, they’d not be able to access an education. It’s really as dire as that for a lot of SEN kids in private schools. Hence why it grates when I hear “oh they’ll just have to go back to state” that simply not an option, I’ll work 4 jobs before taking my kids out of a school that has transformed their lives in the short time they’ve been there!

I totally agree. There are lots of private schools who cater for children with a high level of needs, where the state system has often failed them. There are private schools where a huge proportion of their pupils have significant needs. Not all private schools are the public, boarding schools which people often think of when they hear the word “private”.