How do people afford private school?

[PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain]

Following on from discussion House of Commons today, how do people afford private school fees? Is it by sacrificing holidays and other luxuries? That wouldn't by you a year, but did she perhaps mean a term? How do you pay for the other two terms?

I'd appreciate it if posters refrained from speculation. I'm interested in people's actual financial circumstances and decisions.

@SpaceRaiders sorry the use of the term ‘genuine’ SEN is too blunt. What I mean is that SEN is a broad term and that (most) private schools would only take kids from the very high functioning end of this spectrum.

Put it this way - in your child’s private school are there any kids with down syndrome? Global development delay? How about cerebral palsy? Any kids show up not able to speak english day one? Kids in care with complex trauma issues? All these types of children are in the mainstream sector and absolutely take up staff time and effort. To claim that private schools have an equal or greater SEN provision as mainstream is a nonsense. And parents who send their kids to private get to benefit from that curated cohort with no or fewer kids with complex issues that take up teacher attention.

Again, not a class warrior here. My kids are in private. But i do see it for what it is.

I priced it up and it would have been doable for us. IT professional and retail worker.

It only would have worked because we had very low outgoings, 1 car, no commuting costs and we lived in a small flat that we owned.

We ended up moving out of the area to a place with better schools so no need to go private anymore.

My DD has SEN, but on the high functioning end. Which for us was the reason to consider private school.

@KingsHeath53 I don’t go around asking anyone their child’s diagnosis unless it’s offered in conversation. What I do know is there are children in our school who were premies and have high support needs in comparison to their peers. These dc will likely never live independently.

You say your dc is in private then you’ll know there’s vast range is schools from Eaton all the way down to the small private mainstream specialist schools for children with higher support needs. The SEN provision at our private is greater, than schools locally. That is a fact for us here, every school and provision is different. If it wasn’t, we’d not have state school kids joining mid-year from down the road. And above all the SEN provision is freely accessible to those who need it, even without an official diagnosis. (I know we are so incredibly fortunate and only wish that this level of support was freely available in state.) Now would dc have received a similar level of SEN support had I taken the LA to court? Quite likely. But I would also have spent 24 months fighting and close to 15k in legal fees per child. Meanwhile what education would dc have had in the interim?

I’m not denying the types of children you mention have greater need here. What I’m saying is that you will find those needs in many a private and specialist school both of which will be affected by these changes when they come into effect. The Eaton’s, Sevenoaks schools and Wycombe Abbeys don’t accept everyone much like any other highly academically selective school. You wouldn’t want your SEN child, even a low support needs child attending due to how competitive it is. And private schools even specialist ones often refuse children if they can’t meet need.

Whilst you will find children with varying support needs in a state school, I can guarantee often their needs are not being met, particularly if they’re undiagnosed. The issue is there’s simply aren’t enough special schools, or ones which have the staff/facilities to cater to kids like this. So even if a parent has a the ability to navigate an incredibly complex and expensive system which most don’t. There’s no guarantee that the dc won’t end up in a “that’ll do” school being disruptive because their needs aren’t adequately met, therefore disrupting an entire class of 30 children. Every child deserves a decent education. What I disagree with, is this government tinkering without a well thought out plan and thereby impacting children like mine who invariably have no choice but to pay for a basic education. A luxury it is not!

From my research looking at senior schools specialist schools here are around 30k per year. What people don’t realise is if the LA is funding school fees for SEN, and a lot do because there’s no alternative. It’ll be the LA who is likely having to fund the increase in fees. And those parents who have managed to self fund just fine prior to this increase, now have a vested interest to try to get the LA to contribute. I’m not saying it’ll happen in every case or they’ll be successful but I’m sure they’ll be some who will definitely consider it. And why wouldn’t you?!

Sorry to have derailed the thread but this is an important part of the conversation that needs highlighting. Let’s by all means level the playing field but let’s make sure we’re actually levelling it for every single child, not just those without additional needs or disabilities. And that has to start with ensuring there’s adequate SEN provision for every child in the state system.

My kid has autism, tourettes, adhd global development delay and low cognitive function thanks to a completely avoidable birth injury due to appalling care in the maternity unit when I was in labour.

We are in private. Because no the state sector in our catchment area did not meet his needs. At open days we were explicitly told that it did not meet his needs by the HTs of said state schools one of whom visibly paled when we discussed it with her.

I guess we could have played catchment monopoly........

Oh, and yes- a child in Year 10 (year above) has cerebral palsy. When he did his exams this year (I know this because I asked his mother about it) he had a 1-1 scribe to assist him plus a voice reader machine (not sure what they are called) so he could access the exams. I would like to think that sort of thing is available to evry child with additional needs in any school but we all know it isn't.

This question has been done to death on MN.
How do people pay for million pound homes, Maserati cars, annual holidays in the bahamas?
they earn it or someone pays for it. A small number might be on a bursary or a scholarship.
if you’ve got £20k/child/year spare after you’ve paid for whatever else you need/want in life then you can afford private secondary.
at DCs school most parents appear to earn it, but I know some families where grandparents pay.

We’re just discussing whether to send private or not. We can because we earn enough. It will be from our monthly income not savings

@KingsHeath53
I think you have made the mistake of assuming that your reasons for going private (a 'better' peer group, less SEN) apply universally across state/private sectors.

One of the tools that private schools use to maintain that behaviour and environment is focusing on their specialism. For some that is academics, some sport, some some music (like Cheethams). For some that lower needs SEN, some that is very high needs SEN. The school set up is then tailored to this and they can be clear about when a school is appropriate or not for a particular child.

Certainly in the expensive area I live in, there are very few high needs SEN kids in the state system. Because the parents/teachers know how to use the system and can afford legal fees.

My childs peer group hasn't changed following the move to private. The state school parents were motivated and engaged in the system and raised lots of money for the school. The teaching staff were able to communicate to parents when they were struggling to meet a childs need and parents acted on it. These were the parents willing to pay the premium for the catchment. My children were very privileged when they were in the state system, just as they are now.

I mostly moved my children to private for childcare reasons, so I could keep my job. Due to moving school locations/inadequate wrap around care in junior meant the logistics no longer worked.

The one thing I think that is measurable on your list, is smaller class sizes and this definitely support better behaviour, which is turn sports faster learning. And I would add freedom from government interference as the other luxury (very happy my kids won't do SATs). These could be used to justify VAT.

Based on what you wrote, I assume you would also be happy to see personal tuition have VAT on it too, which is a consistent argument.

I can disagree but that is a clear argument which doesn't rely on stereotyping about each sector.

State schools definitely select on parental with/income via catchment as do private schools. Both sectors have children with SEN in, but allocated in different ways across the sector. Levels of extra activities/costs vary across both sectors.

It sounds like you have found a school that you feel is a good fit for your children which does make them privileged. But don't assume your reasons/experiences are the only ones out there.

@KingsHeath53 i would also add to @SpaceRaiders brilliant post that ‘mild’ SEN can have a profound impact on a child’s ability to function in a classroom setting. There would have been no money in state for extra support and minimal ability to accommodate my dc’s needs in a class of 30. It would have been years of lost learning, nhs waitlists, legal fees, etc and still no guarantee of meaningful support if we had stuck it out in state. Instead we were fortunate enough (high earners) to fund a private education at a brilliant local indie. Our school has somewhat of an unmarketed specialty for supporting children with ‘mild’ Sen (dyslexia in particular) as well as shy or anxious children that benefit from exceptional pastoral care, a nurturing culture and lots of individual attention.

the state schools around us aren’t bad, they just can’t truly meet the needs of every child equally well, even if they try their best and/or tick the boxes required to claim they can. Private schools play a key role in providing choices for kids that aren’t thriving in mainstream (but also don’t need a medically specialist educational environment), and I think we should be looking at ways to make them more accessible to a broader range of families rather than punitively taxing them.

@Labraradabrador Our school sounds very much like yours. Not a floodlit all weather pitch, olympic sized pool or acres of grounds in sight. Only a dilapidated buildings in dire need of maintenance and enrichment activities being funded by the PTA. It’s a wonderful small nurturing school and it’s been an absolute godsend to both dc but my youngest dc especially.

I find it somewhat interesting though, that when I’ve had this discussion many a time on various platforms, the same ‘private schools are a luxury’ arguments keep being used in favour of an increase in fees in order to better invest in the state sector. Yet the moment you mention SEN, disabled children, those with complex learning and or medical needs. Needs that can only really be met in private mainstream or specialist schools whom this change will also invariably impact there’s complete silence.

Perhaps there are several groups of people seeking private education.

There are those who want academic excellence. They are willing to pay for an experience where their children can learn with those of similar ability and avoid as many disruptions as possible. These tend to be the selective and most expensive schools.

Lots of people choose private education when they feel state doesn’t meet the needs of their DC. It could be SEN or it could be to do with mental health or other things. They might need specialist provision or simply a smaller and more nurturing and personalised environment than state might provide. The latter is often found in smaller and less shiny and more affordable private schools. Lots of private schools, esp Preps have a considerable number of children who come in mid-way through primary with low level SEN and rely on these families to keep their numbers up. Often these schools struggle financially and do t have shiny facilities or pay their staff particularly well. It’s not always easy for such schools to provide well for the children with SEN and also those who wanted the academic excellence mentioned in the paragraph above. However, those starting out from the beginning of the school, might well be seeking the former. Many schools outside of London and the SE are struggling to be all things to all families who will pay….to suggest they are academically selective and can offer great results to all, but also to suggest they can offer a tailored education to meet complex SEN. They need to at least say they offer both in order to attract enough families.

So many families who wouldn’t have considered paying fees, do once SEN become apparent. They might struggle and scrape and adjust what they had seen as their financial futures in order to provide a good education for their children. As others said upthread, for many with SEN, it feels like paying for education or giving up on education.

But often those paying who aren’t in this position, don’t want to be in schools with lots of SEN, especially complex SEN. Often they feel they are paying to avoid this. People won’t say this, as it’s clearly discriminatory, but that is the reality about how people often feel. What many are paying for is ‘people like us’ who they consider to be affluent, well motivated and socially acceptable.

Out of interest, what % of private school pupils have AEN?

At my children’s school, about half are funded by EHCP and a further at least 25% (75%+ in total) have additional needs.

That percentage must be rare. I know private schools have better esp such provision so often have higher diagnoses of dyslexia than state (so larger proportions of pupils getting extra time). But that is a v high percentage.

Well 100% of pupiks at my sons independent school have SEN as its a special school.

• In secondary, 2.4% of pupils have an EHC plan and 12.4% have SEN support
• In state-funded AP schools, 25.5% have an EHC plan and 57.0% have SEN support
• In independent schools, including independent special schools, 4.9% of pupils have an EHC plan and 15.2% have SEN support

I know it is rare. But it is an example of why a broad brush approach to independent schools is nonsensical- a school with low fees and few “typical” students would cause a massive influx of children into the local mainstream schools whose needs would be far from met. And would cost the state so much more than they could ever gain in VAT!

I asked the question kind of expecting the answer that it's rare. But to read these threads you'd think every other child at private school is SEN.

I asked the question kind of expecting the answer that it's rare. But to read these threads you'd think every other child at private school is SEN

The thing is it's still possible for pupils to have needs that won't be appropriately met in mainstream (or the mainstreams available to them) but they don't meet the threshold for a SEN diagnosis.

I've known parents professionally who have chosen to withdraw their children from schools I've worked at, including good ones, because their child's needs weren't able to be met as effectively as the independent school they chose. Privately I agreed with their decisions. I know the colleagues involved were excellent at their jobs, but they can't work miracles and can't do more than they have the resources and capacity to offer.

I'd imagine if they posted on MN they'd be parents talking about their child's needs as their reason for choosing independent education.

The reality is that even good schools aren't good for everyone and no school is able to adequately meet every single pupils' needs. It's easy for us to say they should, but in reality there are a lot of trade offs and someone somewhere is going to miss out or lose out when decisions are made.

Its not every other, but 15.2 plus 4.9 is 20 which is about 1 in 5 pupils.

Which is about the same in state schools. Well actually its slightly higher but i reckon thats due to greater liklihood of being identified rather than increased actual incidence.

They wont be evenly distributed across the sector, but they arent in state schools either and the needs profiles might be very different. There is definitely more independent schools pupils diagnosed with dyslexia. My LA doesnt even believe it exists.

I have one son in a state school and one in an independent special school where all the children have complex needs.

@explainthistomeplease

Often people start talking about their SEN kids in the independent sector as a response to something along the lines of:

'private school parents don't want their kids to mix with SEN kids'
'private school parents don't want their kids mixing with anyone with academic/behavioural challenges (even if school can meet the need)/poor kids'
'All private schools have facilities/activities/teaching that is way beyond what the state system can provide and it is unnecessary/luxurious'

In some cases - schools/individuals - I am sure these statements are true. But alot of people think they are blanket statements that cover the whole private sector rather than seeing the diversity of situations it covers.

My cousin and his partner take in £11k per month after tax, so above average income. Live in London and both their kids attend private school (approx £50k annually). Live in £1.7m house (nice area), but recently had move move to a interest only mortgage as they (£800k remaining), as they can no afford repayment mortgage (approx £5k p/m).

My point...some people make stupid decisions. Either downside or don't send kids private.

For those asking about SEN numbers, here are the statistics.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/special-educational-needs-in-england

4.3% of all children have and EHCP.

In primary, 2.5% of pupils have an EHCP. In secondary, it’s 2.4%. It’s obviously much higher in state funded AP schools.

In independent schools (including independent special schools), 4.9% of pupils have an EHCP.

There is a higher proportion of those with EHCPs in the independent sector. When you compare mainstream state schools with the independent sector, there are around twice as many in the independent sector, on a percentage basis.

These are just the figures for those with EHCPs, ie those requiring a high level of support. The SEN (with no EHCP) figures are also higher in the independent sector.

We earn around 170k between us as Hr senior manger and finance senior manger so could afford to send them both. But we also like travelling a lot so prioritise that as education is more than just school.

in many ways, from what I can tell some in high paying jobs (investment banking / top lawyers and the like), some only have one child with both parents working (this is quite common, I think only children with two professional parents definitely are overrepresented in prep schools), family wealth (often acquired through property investments decades ago), in secondary schools also scholarships & bursaries. Around 10% of children at DD's school are on bursaries, although my impression is that many of those are children of staff along with talented athletes / musicians / academic scholars. I know some families where grandparents are paying the fees or parents are using an inheritance to pay fees. So it is definitely not always paid from net income, maybe net income isn't even the majority case.