Yr 2 SATS

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

Our school still does them apparantly, but "don't make a big deal about them". Will they tell us before they do them? Anyone know what time of year they do them?

Just wondering as dd came home from school on Friday and in her reaading book it says she took a "reading test" in which she did so well she's been moved up from ORT 3 to ORT 9. I have thought for ages her books were far too easy for her

Ours don't do them and they just did a series of "assesssments" instead one week. No notice or preparation. They may just routinely do a reading test to allow fir sudden development .

Every school has to do at least one test in reading, writing and mathematics for children who are working at 2c or above. However, only a teacher assessment level will be reported to parents at the end of Y2. The test marks make up a very small part of the teacher assessment which is ongoing all year. The timing of the tests is up to the school - if they wished they could do them in September and use them as a basis to show how much progress has been made throughout the year. Most Y2 teachers tend to use them in May/June to confirm/support their judgements. The tests take the form of activities which children will be used to completing as normal classrom practice - my Y2s never know they are doing a test!
Hope this helps - it really is up to your school how they use these assessments/when they complete them.

IME, schools do SATS in May.

I hate SATS, think they are the biggest waste of time ever. Just my opinion of course and the sooner my DCs school stop doing them, the better.

ha, arent you lot lucky.
dc sc=hoool wont let anyone in year two or six have any holiday time becaus eof sats.
they ar ei n may. i am strongly tempeted to allow dc to be ill that week. but think that is beneath me.
you have no idea how lucky you are.

My DCs school run SATS booster classes during half terms.

Message withdrawn

Stripey, don't worry about them. They are there to assess the school not the child - which is why I shall not be doing the "extra tuition" with DTDs that has been implied by some teachers and parents. I want the SATs result to reflect the schools teaching not my home tuition IYSWIM.

DTDs are regularly having maths "tests". I think that there is an element of getting them used to the principle of a "test" as as far as I can see (I have been shown the papers) they do have to be sat down and done in the way you would an exam to a certain extent.

Feenie, can you tell me a bit about the level 3 papers whilst you are here. DTDs teacher was talking a bit about them suggesting that if a child get s a grade 3 result that is the equivalent of a Yr3 pupil??? Whats the point of doing that? I didn't think that Yr3 did SATs and surely a Yr2 child shouldn't be expected or assessed against Yr3 standards until they get to Yr 3?

In yr 2 sats the teachers have to adjust the results downwards so they get a good added value from year 2 to year 6. Every other subject apart from English, maths and in year 6 science gets ditched until after may.

Leosdad - absolute garbage! That might happen in your child's school, but it shouldn't. The curriculum continues as normal in my Y2, and in our Y6. As for me adjusting my children's results downwards for value added - no chance, and this wouldn't happen in any school I know, either.

Slightlymad - is your child in Y2? I disagree with the need for 'regular maths tests', unless they are mental maths/times tables. The questions encountered in the booklet should be exactly the same as the ones completed regularly during normal classroom practice. Year 2 shouldn't even know when they are doing a test - mine don't. Slightly trickier to pull off in Year 6, however, where exam conditions are so scarily like A-level that it would be irresponsible of any class teacher not to practise this scenario with them.

As for the levels, well they are just a scale to measure attainment. An 'average' Y2 child (as if there is such a thing!) should achieve a middle level 2 (2B) and an average Y6 child a (4B). A high percentage of these children then go on to achieve 5 GCSEs.

As a school we have to track these children from Y2 to Y6 to check they are on track to achieving their 'level' at the end of key stage 2, rather than just hoping they do all of it in Y6. So children are assessed regularly using teacher assessment and sometimes optional tests in Y3, Y4 and Y5. This fictitious average child will be on track if they achieve a middle level 3 in Year 4 (3B). Therefore, a child in Y2 who is teacher assessed as being a Level 3 is actually working at the same level as an average Y4 child.

Hope this helps - seem to have waffled quite a lot here!

Yes my child(ren) are in Yr2. They are certainly coming home using the phrase "maths test". Difficult to establish the content from them but I gather it means they have to work "alone".

So if my children do the level 3 assessment this effectively means they are being judged against standards that could be used to judge Yr4? Why would you even expect a Yr2 to perform to Yr4 requirements. I know other children in other schools have done it but I don't really understand what is acheived by it.

I realise that it allows differentiation above the 2A level, but is that really necessary? What does a pupil/school gain from having done a test for level 3 in Yr2? It sounds a little bit like doing the teaching for GCSE and then sitting the A levels to me.

All random Qs, I know, the first I heard about level 3 tests was a week or 2 ago and I am a little confused by the need for them.

Just means your children are above average. Doesn't mean they are learning from the Y4 curriculum, just working at the standard of an average Y4 child. By law your school has to assess children at the end of Key stage 1 (and 2) and if they are level 2 or above one test has to be completed to support this judgement (amongst lots of other evidence).

So if they come out at 2A and the teacher believes that they are acapble of more do they have to do the level 3 test? Or is hte level 2 test sufficeint to meet legal requirements?

Nope, she only has to do one test. The teacher could use other evidence to satisfy herself they are Level 3.

cat64
I know exactly what Ofsted look for, thanks! And, amongst other things, it would be accurate teacher assessment. Plus schools are moderated thoroughly by LEAs to check accuracy. (Producing several 'mock' tests that a Y2 have completed would not be sufficient!)
Not saying it doesn't happen, but I think posters would be wrong to give mumsnet the impression that artificially deflating/inflating levels is normal practice in most primary/infant schools.

My DD came out below the expected average in her KS1 SATS. What really annoyed me (and still does) is that they tested her, found out she was below the average level and did nothing to support

I am also not particulary happy that they got my 5 year old son to sit a maths test last year. But, thats their school and I have to trust they are doing what they feel is right even if I don't agree with their methods.

Its assessment week again soon, wonder how many tests they will be sitting then.

Slightlymad - it also depends which Level 2 test they did. Teachers can select from 2005 or 2007 papers to use as the one 'official' test. So if she used an older paper to assess them at Level 2 she would have to use the 'official' one at some point.

Adjusting levels in infant departments of primary schools is not that difficult to hide from inspectors and LEAs especially as the LEA's want to look good on the value added tables as well.

It is quite easy to justify not giving 3's saying things like the writing needing more punctuation, or the odd spelling mistake.

Some year 2 children are much more capable in some areas than a year 4 child.

The important thing is that for the individual child the actual KS1 result does not matter

I think it would be very difficult actually - any LEA moderation we've ever had has been extremely thorough.

I've been teaching nearly 15 years, and still say your picture of KS1 assessment is not the norm, Leosdad. If you posted this view on the TES primary forum I don't think many teachers would recognise this as occurring in their schools; in fact, any complaints tend to be of the opposite nature, where heads pressurise Y2 teachers to push children to attain higher levels. I have to say I am so glad I don't work in either type of school - it wonder render any kind of assessment completely pointless.

Not talking about SAT results, Cat64, am talking about TEACHER ASSESSMENT - you know, that thing that tells you where the children are, how they are doing, and allows you to work out what is next? The thing your entire planning depends on?
But thanks for the patronising anyway

i think they are normally in april,may.my dd school really pressurised the kids my dd was having nightmares and sleepwalking.even though she is in yr4 now she comes home saying if i had 6points more i would have got a 4.my ds will being doing his sats soon he has had mock ones he was 7points from a 5.this is brill for him as had 6-8 mth off school due to bullying/illness.And has just started a new primary school in january.they sjould not be pressurised at this age

I am not surprised he hated it; even if you keep the curriculum as normal as possible it's still a strain on a 10 to 11 year old. I'm looking forward to Y6 assessment changing in line with Y2, which can be much more relaxed. It can't happen soon enough.

Apology accepted

Still think deflating levels is not the norm though. It goes against everything we do.

Feenie, whilst I would love to agree with your comments, I find myself nodding unequivocally at cat64's posts. Too tired to type anything that she hasn't already said far more elegantly than I could.