Ideal class size? Socialisation and academics

[Chatter101]

Our ds is in Year 1 and is an only child, we have recently moved to the area and have no family around, so school is an important part of his social development.

He goes to a lovely school in town, and he likes school. There are 7 children in his class and only 2 other boys, the girls and boys don't seem to play much together. The school doesn't seem to expect much to change till YR 4 when they usually have more children start. ( The school is financially healthy so no issues there).

Our son loves other children always wanting to play with children he meets at the park, etc. Always wanting to be part of / leading the playing.

The 3 boys seem to play with one another because they have to they are all quite different in personality and interest. The boys are 10 months, and 12 months older than our ds. ( our son is in the right class for his age, and holding him back isn't an option ). He has mentioned not having friends a few times and when you ask he says, the boys only play with each other because the girls won't let them play with them.

The school itself is lovely and further up classes increase to 14ish, the children seem lovely, confident and well adjusted. Academic results are very good too!!

BUT

We are toying with the idea of moving our son to another nearby school. It's an 8 minute drive, and a more socially dynamic school. Classes are capped at 20, there are currently 18 children in the current Y1. The school is caring, kind, and lovely facilities, but the academic results are not as good as his current school ( @A levels ).the kids seem kind and very well adjusted but there isn't the same level of confidence in the air. ( if that makes sense ). He would be able to do a taster day, the class is roughly 50/50 boys and girls.

What are your thoughts? We spoke to ds's school but they don't seem to understand our concerns, " oh just wait till YR 4 it will all sort itself out"

I don't want to uproot our son from such a good school, but at the same time I want him to develop socially have friends and look back fondly at his early school years.

The school is financially healthy so no issues there

I’m amazed!

Some schools prop up very small pre-preps with more healthy numbers higher up the school.

My DS's YR class had 8 DC and only 3 boys. It was fine for him because he got on with one of the other boys. I felt sorry for the 3rd boy though because he was a very different character and a bit left out.

By Y2 they were up to two classes of 10.

My DS thrived in the very tiny environment. He is August born and needed a lot of initial attention and help with his writing and social skills. The classes all had a teacher and a TA, so he was able to get all the support he needed which, at that point, was much more of a priority than having a bigger pool of peers to play with.

My child is year 6 at a prep school with 20 children per year (one class per year) In many ways it is a brilliant school, but a negative for me is the small size in terms of friendship groups. So even the bigger school you are looking at is quite small friendship wise IMO.

My child is looking forward to going to a bigger school next year as are most of their classmates as they have all outgrown the small class size. I definitely wouldn’t want them in a year of 20 all the way through to A levels personally

I'm not all that keen on tiny classes personally but in this case when he's already there I think if he seems generally happy and likes school then I would be hesitant to move him for an unknown new environment. You could always sign him up for some clubs outside school to meet other children that way?

I wouldn't be taking A level results into account at year 1....!

I'd say the school you are proposing is still pretty small.
From your title, I was going to say my ideal would be about 20 kids per class, 3 or 4 classes per year.
I would move from a year group of 7.

They have a very financially healthy senior school, that is investing silly money into the prep. So no chance of closing.

Gosh those are tiny numbers. I personally wouldn't choose such a small class, it doesn't leave them anywhere to go when the inevitable fallings out happen.

Our DC1 has 24 in her class (state school, low birth year) which is lovely. I had 37 in mine way back when and from my perspective it was fine - I'm sure the teachers disagreed though

I think a more socially dynamic school sounds like a great idea, I wouldn't want my DC growing up with a very narrow world view. Sounds like your DC is growing up very privileged (mine are to a lesser extent as well) and I don't think it does them any harm to have an innate understanding that not everyone has what they have.

Just noticed you mentioned academic results - personally this isn't that important to me at this stage. I'm more concerned that they make good social foundations which will benefit them throughout their life. I think that could be hard to do in a class of 7.

Yup, good point it is a long way away. Lol. But I guess I'm just in the habit of judging a school by its academic results. 🙃
And I'm really more concerned at this stage about his enjoyment level of his schooling.

I think a one form entry school (30 per class) is too small. 7 is mad - poor preparation for life, very risky in terms of friendships and other things skewing how the groups work.

At primary I think you need 50+ in a year group; at secondary well over 100 and better over 150.

this isn’t alwYs easy to find - I went to a massive primary and tiny secondary; my kids have been to a small primary and big secondary. But I think it’s good to aim for.

Seriously pay zero heed to a level results if your child is 5!! They ought to move schools between now and then anyway - it’s really bad for kids to stay at the same school
all the way through. Does them zero favours after they leave.

Hi I made a typo 8 children in his class not 7, but I don't know how to change it

Absolutely academic results are important - moreso for secondary than primary I'd say, but obviously you want your child to get a good education.

But as you say they're not the be all and end all. A school that prioritises results is not likely to be supportive of DC with SEN, and may not encourage a love of learning and curiosity, which are more important long term.

No school will get it right for all children and all families, but there's a balance.

I live somewhere with very few private schools, most state schools are excellent so parents don't see the need, especially at primary. A local family sent their eldest to a very exclusive school that goes from nursery to A Level. They now feel that those children haven't really grown up in the real world and are far too sheltered - believing in Santa until much later than you would expect, for example. Their youngest is in state school. It's that sort of thing that would put me off a very small school, I'd worry it's too sheltered.

I think his current school sounds too small for healthy social interaction but if you want to keep him there I would get him enrolled in cubs/scouts, local football/rugby, dance/drama activities to widen his social circle.

I went to a school like that when I was a child, there was around 10 max in my class, maybe less. It was probably different for me because I moved from a big school to a tiny school when I was 8 years old.

My mum always dreamed of having us go to a very small school like she went to when she was a child so when we moved to that area she was very excited to enroll us here. I absolutely hated it, I didn't really connect with anyone in the class. I felt like I couldn't ever relax in such a small group because you're constantly under a spotlight.

I stayed there for 2 miserable years until my parents agreed to move me to a bigger school in town with close to 30 people in a class. I settled in so quickly and made friends easily because there was such a big group to choose from. I was 8 starting in the small school and 10 when I moved to the big school.

Small schools suit some people but it definitely wasn't for me.

Hi shivawn, sorry you went through that for 2 years, yes that's another issue I feel there's just not enough space for a child to feel " naughty " in a small class as there's always someone watching. Especially as the teacher or TA is always around.

Mine were in one form entry co-Ed preps with classes of 22. This was great until about year 4 or 5 when it was too small socially although continued to be great academically. It was no issue in terms of teams etc as they always combined year 1/2 3/4 and 5/6 for sports and played against similar schools. Socially It just got too restrictive and they were all fed up of each other by year 5 and there was no place to escape when there were fallings out etc. having said that it was a wonderful school and would do it again but I absolutely would never consider a class of less than 20 in a one form entry and about 16 if there are more than 1 form per year.

Does he like the school more broadly? Does the approach to teaching, extracurriculars, pastoral care align with what he needs to thrive not taking into consideration results? If so, I might stick it out and see how it evolves - a lot can change year to year, both in terms of class size and friendships.

mine are in a very small class (7 in reception, more like 10 in y1), and it was a bit of a rocky start on the friendship side but is now really working for us. The school has put a lot of thought and care into socialisation though - cultivating a good group dynamic that doesn’t allow cliques to form as well as mixing with the year above and year below on a daily basis so that potential friendship pool is 50 rather than 10. I see real benefits for their socialisation in that they are encouraged to find friendships where they might not have an initial spark, and also learn to play with and support older and younger children, which is important for us as they don’t have siblings.

I could also see a small class being problematic in a different school though. Ours really works hard at creating community within and across years, and is maybe a bit special in that regard

Also want to add as a counterpoint to what I posted above that it is no big deal to move children at this age. I would think of it in terms of junior and senior and go with your gut feeling about which school is best for your dc as an individual for the next 5(ish) years. Try not to select the junior based on senior results, as so much can change in 5 years, and there will be a lot of movement in schools around start of senior school.

A level results are completely irrelevant in year 1. Even if it's the same school the expertise is so different the management would actually concern me.

20 is better but I think that it will become too small quite quickly. 20 in a class is a good number but by the time that secondary school is coming round , I'd want my child in a school with multiple classes of 20, especially if they are sporty as you need the numbers to play matches and improve. (I am going to assume that your senior school ambitions are schools that are bigger and more like 100+ in a year.

I went to a small village primary that had 20 children in the class - it was too small. Academically, the spread of abilities was too wide - I was bright but definitely not a genius (straight As as opposed to Bs and Cs), and was head and shoulders above the other 6 girls in my class, which set me apart. There was also only one boy of a similar ability to me, and that meant I didn’t really get pushed.

I switched to a much bigger school, and suddenly had a whole class of people at my level, and achieving As/working hard was seen as normal and not freakish, and honestly once I got over not being top all of the time, I was so much happier and had far more genuine friendships (not just “I sit next to you”).

My experience of tiny school intakes is that the dynamics become very much like extended family between the kids. Their person boundaries become somewhat skewed almost like siblings/cousins? Interdependency ongoing many years later.
my dd was the only girl, with only two other girls over a three year period.
but I got to see the tiny group grow up, as well as a second equally tiny school group and as I said noticed things.
perfect size for me: 2x20 (two intakes of about 20 children)

With three boys you can’t muster together any team sports surely? If he’s sporty then this would be a real concern.

Often they will play coed until Y3 and then start to train and compete in single sex teams. A big part of prep school life is the sport.

I also wouldn’t be looking at A-level results for a student currently in Y1. Schools can change massively over the years and you would be daft to keep him there purely for that.

I personally think 25- 35 in a year group, split between two classes is about right in the pre prep stages. Moving up to 20 in a class from Y3.