fingerprinting in schools

[emmaagain]

It's happening in 5,000 schools already, according to Nick Clegg. The Prime Minister seemed not to want to answer questions about it (it's about the third question down on the link )

i know our local primary school does this, supposedly for library tickets
tbh i don't really trust them to keep such sensitive data secure.

I read that as fingerpainting and wondered why the fuss.... slowley dawned on me that's not what you're going on about at all..... v slow tonight. sorry

What a strange exchange.
Nick Clegg asking questions about DNA and fingerprints and the PM answering questions about CCTV.

they use fingerprints at ds' school, they did not say/mention or ask whether it was ok for them to do this. They don't do this at the local library, so why have such highly personal and delicate information to need to borrow a school book? it's outragious, they lost all our child benefit details - what if they loose all this data as well??

What on earth do you think they're going to do with a load of fingerprints??

Paranoia IMO.

"they lost all our child benefit details"

Did they? My children's school didn't, I thought it was the government.

some librarian mnetter posted that they take some data from it, but not a full finger print.

don't see the fuss myself

It might be paranoia but it's abit over the top for junior school children to borrow a school library book.

Are teachers required to give their fingerprints for things like cashless catering?

I don't like the idea of accepting the giving of your fingerprints as run of the mill stuff. If I have a card number/pin and someone steals it then I can have it stopped and changed. Not much someone can do if someone steals their fingerprint and uses it.

This thread is the one mb is referring to.

At our school (primary where ds goes) they use a thumbprint system for the library - the children put their thumb on the pad when they take out a book, and the computer identifies who has taken it out. However, the information is only used on the computer designated for the library, on the library program itself, and not anywhere else in the school. The records are automatically deleted when the child leaves the school. Also the parents have the option of declining if they do not wish their child to be thumbprinted (the child's barcoded record in a folder gets scanned instead, like having a library card).

We do not seem to have problems with it at our school - very few parents (on average about one child per class) have declined.

Claiming it is 'only' some data is a bit of a whitewash really as it's exactly the same set of data that is stored by (just about) all finger-printing systems including ones used by police etc. None of the systems store actual images of the fingerprint, just this same set of around 50 (iirc) points that mostly uniquely identify it. The manufacturers of the systems are at fault in my opinion by trying to alleviate peoples fears by claiming they don't store the actual fingerprint, because what they do store, although it can't be used to reconstruct your actual fingerprint, can easily be used in many fingerprint systems that you might not wish it to be used in. In this day and age with identity fraud being so widespread I think there is a data protection issue with this data - after all it's easy enough to change a credit card if someone starts using the details, but you can't change your fingers.

What use do you think a 10 year old's finger print is going to be? What on earth would someone use it for?

They have your child's date of birth, full name and address on file which is surely far more personal/useful than a fingerprint.

What are these mysterious "fingerprint systems" in which the nasty people are going to use your child's fingerprint anyway?

I don't think it matters that it's a child's print. Don't you have the same fingerprints for life?

I dont like this and ive already told my 2 sons at secondary school under no circumstances unless I am there or I have given them written permission must they allow anyone to take fingerprints or DNA to me it seems to be an infringement on our basic rights,im all for security and cutting back on crime etc but i would like to see current problems addressed before starting a new 'scheme' that i do suspect has more to do with 'big brother' than the loan of a horrid henry book.

The thought is really that the library is the thin end of the wedge and is 'conditioning' our children to be happy about using biometric data.

I understand banks, passports and other systems are looking into using such technologies. Our 10 year olds fingerprints may be of limited use now, but who is to say what they might be useful for in 10 or even 50 years time (their prints wont have changed).

My point in any case wasn't that I have a problem with using the data (I have some reservations, but have consented to dcs fingerprints to be used at school), but that it is wrong for the manfacturers to claim that because the print is reduced to a set of data to be stored that makes it all hunkey-dory - they are relying on peoples ignorence of how that data is/could be used to provide reassurance.

The point is, the police use 50 points of reference, the library system uses 5 - which is enough to identify a child from a school population of about 2000, but nothing like enough to uniquely identify them outside the school.

As I said on the other thread, I'd be more worried about the actual data that is held on the SIMS sysyem being kept for that individual's entire life - which is what I was told would happen by a Capita trainer on a course I attended.

The systems are still supposed to be compatible though, even if the library one is 'fuzzy' compared to a better one. Though I didn't know there was that much of a difference to be honest rustybear - do you have a source? I don't trust a school to protect that sort of info (fingerprints or SIMS) to the same level that say banks might especially when it all seems rather unecessary.

It was what I was told when enquiring about the Junior Librarian system at the BETT (Education Technology ) show.
This page explains the technology, but not in great detail, which was why I was asking at the show.

I work in ICT at a junior school & I also look after the library & we were thinking of using a computerised system, but we'd probably go for the barcodes only (a) because it's cheaper & (b) because of parents' concerns.

I remember your posts on that other thread rustybear and agree with you that what is held indefinitely on SIMS is really much more of a data protection issue
Which school in Lewisham was that hanaflower? I live locally and don't recall seeing anything in the press about it. I can't believe concerned parents would not have got in touch with a reporter about such a move.