Wwyd, Hong Kong University with scholarship or Imperial College without/Medicine?

[camaleon77]

One of my kids has been offered a medicine related degree at both Universities. In addition, they have been offered a full scholarship (including fees, accommodation and visa) to HKU.

We live relatively local to Imperial that is marginally better ranked as Uni in that subject. We have no links to Hong Kong. It would be a massive adventure, have very little to based the decision on.

Any advice/ideas would be very welcome, esp. if you know something about HKU or life in HK as a foreign student.

You need to ask this question in the Higher Education forum.

But why did they apply to Hong Kong if they had no links and weren't sure they wanted to go? Sems a bit random. Hopefully theyre aware that many people, especially young people, have been leaving Hong Kong in recent years, for obvious reasons.

Hi. I lived in HK for 13 years, up until v recently. Firstly, HK is a well ranked Uni so on that basis it’s a tempting offer. HK’s public health service is not unlike the NHS in structure so that may also be helpful if he intends to practice in the UK. It’s still a great city, has finally put covid behind it etc. If your dc is into outdoor stuff there are loads of beaches/ mountains etc all within striking distance and accessible by cheap and good public transport. Food is amazing. It’s known as an expensive city but if accommodation is taken care of, it isn’t that bad. However, there are a few things I’d be worried about. Firstly, likely to be one of v few western students there, esp on his course. While there is quite a big expat population in HK, v few go to Uni in HK. Those that do tend to be v integrated and speak either Cantonese or mandarin- probably went to a local school rather than an international school. Local students tend to live at home ( as HK is small and good transport) so halls will be mainly mainland students/ other internationals. The language shouldn’t be an issue as medicine is taught in English but socialising may be. Uni here just doesn’t have the same social/holistic aspect as in UK. The other thing to be clear on is that there is zero scope for any political activism or criticism of the government within student politics. He needs to be politically apathetic and just not get drawn into discussions by either HKers or mainlanders. He may find it tricky trying to navigate political tensions that he doesn’t have context for. Finally, while the course is in English, if he is dealing with patients, many won’t speak English. How will he deal with that ( presumably HKU has thought of third but worth checking)? Cantonese is quite a hard language so to develop competency from scratch would be a big ask alongside studying medicine. Don’t assume he’ll just pick it up from living in HK. It’s totally possible to get by day to day without any Cantonese at all unless needed for your job.

Btw, I’ve assumed that your son is not of Chinese heritage with links to mainland vs HK, as you didn’t mention in your OP, but apologies if that’s not correct.

Thank you very much for the answers, esp. all the extra bits to consider that you put forward @illiterato .

The scholarship opportunity was put in from of them and they applied. It was a long process with 3 interviews but never really thought they would get the scholarship.

My child studied Mandarin (no Cantonese) for three years (with the Mandarin Excellence Programmed funded by the UK government in some secondary schools) and has an overall interest in Chinese culture but still not enough to socialise/have a fluid conversation.

It seems that the proportion of international students going to HKU is 40% but we were not sure if this included mainland China or it was truly international.

I may repost this in the Higher Education forum as suggested @yankidoo. Thanks again

The 40% will include mainland. This can be confusing as technically HK is part of China but yet….

Your son’s interest in mandarin does change things a bit. I think it depends what kind of person he is. If he is the sort to prefer the typical U.K. student experience, go to Imperial. If he is is the type to relish an unusual, albeit occasionally uncomfortable experience, and he’s prepared to push the language ( native speakers likely to be patient and receptive) do HK.

That's actually very useful and will pass it on straight away. Thanks!

I'm also a foreigner in HK and agree with everything that @illiterato has said here. Is there anyway he can visit HK to meet current students? While tuition may be in English, all interactions between the local students will be in Cantonese - getting a coffee etc - and most expats are late twenties or older. There is not a large number of Western students here.

As someone who used to live in HK, I would choose Imperial. I think the chance of gaining sufficiently-good Cantonese to socialise and deal with patients is quite low and the challenges of living in HK, alongside a very challenging degree, would make it unappealing to me.

If you live close to Imperial, could they live at home? You'll also be saving the costs of regular flights.

I am creating an account just because I see your post. :)

A qualified HK doctor will be required to take a qualifying exam in order to come to the UK to work. That's why qualified HK doctors seldom come to the UK, on top of lower salary. I am not familiar with NHS trainee system but I guess it will be much easier if your child can be trained in the NHS if he/she plans to come back to the UK in longer term. If your child's plan is going to Australia after that, no qualifying exam will be required. If I were you, it will be the detrimental factor to consider.

Teaching quality - one of my besties was educated in HKU and qualified as a doctor after her trainee (houseman) years. Teaching was good, problem based learning with nice professors.

The 40% foreign student mix - it is no secret that it is easier to get into HK medics with "Non-HK exam" result, that 40% comprises of a very high proportion of Chinese descendants with a foreign (non-HK) passport. Nevertheless, their English are good, communicating within the university circle should not be a big problem.

The biggest hurdle - the houseman year (equivalent to trainee in UK?)in HK public health system is very very tough. Lots of pressure, not only from peers/seniors but also from experienced nurses. Trainees are treated as cheap labor in the hospital, and treated with little respects as trainees are not qualified doctors (due to the fact that they can do nothing other research without completing this qualifying year, I think the same goes with other industry anyways). They work extra long hours (long hours in HK means 70hrs per week). If anyone gets allocated to a very busy ward, be prepared for prolonged sleep deprivation. Lots of administrative burdens after "official" hours. Lots of gossip about the trainees over the slightest of things and not job related (maybe your child can be excluded because he/she does not speak the language). It is not that uncommon for trainee doctors to suffer from depression. Your child may have an extra challenge due to language barrier as most patients only speak Cantonese. Those patients who are better educated (hence who understands English), usually opt for private care in HK.

The pressure in public hospitals has got worse in recent years due to many reasons. My friend only got circa 5mins to see a patient before she had reached her mental limit and left HK. Patients easily waited 1-2 hours for a booked appointment pre-Covid (I.e. booked 11am, seen at 1pm). The average waiting hours in HK A&E is around a double of NHS despite HK is already charging patients £15/visit- so you can imagine the shortage of staffs.

HK is now recruiting heavily from mainland China doctors to join the healthcare system, probably it is a plus for your child as there will be more doctors and possibly professors and students speaking mandarin. The same goes for patients, around 1/5 of HK population immigrates from mainland China in the past 20 years- they all speak mandarin. HK has also just lifted the restrictions that a qualified doctor must be able to speak Cantonese, so I guess your child will not be that of an odd one out due to these changes. And I hate to say it but HK is quite racist (esp the older generation)...if your child is white, he/she will be fine.

The biggest advantage is that doctors in HK have got a higher salary in general. And it has got a much more assessable private sector in HK, that one does not necessarily to be a top notch consultant to be recruited in a private hospital/ clinic.

English is not my first language so apologies if it's bit hard to read. Hope it helps.

I am really sorry I did not see this earlier to thank you. This is extremely valuable information and I am very grateful for the time and effort you put into answering me (I hope you see at least that I did not ignore this). Thank you!

I'll add to this OP the work culture in HK is very different. Mental health, pastoral care etc none of that is even on their radar. You will be expected to put up, shut up and deal with any problems yourself. Long hours are the norm. You are seen as lucky to have a job and expected to be grateful, rather than the other way around. Same for being at uni - lucky to be there.