Kent or Essex for better school?

[Islandgirl2]

Hiya,

I am in a difficult situation!

I am wanting to relocate to either Kent (Dartford/Gravesend) or Essex (witham) closer to mom but so many factors to consider. I have 2 kids and diversity and great schools are important ro me. I will just summarise what I have researched thus far. (I might be wrong?

Essex
2 grammar school for my girl which will be Chelmsford girl or 1 in Colchester.

I don't think the state schools are very good as only 49% of pupils achieve 5+ GCSE.

Less diverse unless living in commuter towns like Chelmsford.

Houses are within my budget.

Reasonable journey time to London.

Kent

More Grammar schools and better state schools.

Houses that meet my requirements would be top end of my budget.

More diverse

Fast train to London

I would appreciate some advice from anyone who has lived in these areas or anyone they know.

Thanks in advance

I live in a similar area to @MavisTheMonkey and have done all my life. I don't remember tuition being very common when I was at school but its becoming the norm. There are still kids who pass untutored and those that receive a lot of tuition and don't pass. The test is different from school so you can be doing very well in school and not pass. The main thing for Bexley test is speed.

Dd goes to a girls grammar in bexley where there are girls from Kent and Greenwich. If by diversity you mean black and brown then I would say it's probably 2/3 non white girls.

DD had one hour a week group tuition and one hour a week homework. This was the norm amongst her friends. She says the kids around her now did a lot more than she did in primary and still do.

The area in general is certainly a lot more diverse than when I was a child. In primary I was one of two brown kids in my school year and there were no black kids. We were stared at when we moved into our street over thirty years ago (mixed race). Things have definitely changed and will continue to do so partly driven by it being a grammar school area.

I think you need to narrow your search by area first- as everyone has said the grammar application process is difficult (unless your DD is super bright and gets scores within the top 10% of the county) and catchment will pay as large a role as score.

All areas will have a "good" non-grammar school option, but the truth is they are often seen as second class. Kids with poor concentration / poor behaviour / low engagement / additional needs exist in every area but, in my opinion in grammar areas this cohort typically becomes concentrated into one or two schools rather than naturally being dispersed across three / four and peer behaviour and expectations for the entire school group may become lower.

Good teaching / leadership can definitely offset this but often the non-grammars will be in competition for staff with the local grammar. It just feels like the deck is stacked against the comprehensives around here and exam results are always going to compare poorly because a high degree of the academically inclined kids will get scooped into the grammar system.

If you're willing to bear this is mind and accept the non grammar alternatives then an area with grammars can work for you, otherwise focus on somewhere outside of a grammar area that has really decent non-selective comprehensives.

Sorry... as you can tell I'm not a fan of the system! But for full disclosure my DS is going to a grammar in Kent 😳 so I'm a massive hypocrite

The Beaulieu Park School in Chelmsford is lovely. State, non-selective and the only Outstanding high school in the city. It hasn't had a GCSE year yet though as it's very new. Great reputation though.

I wouldn't send my DD to the girls' grammar in Chelmsford. Terrible reputation locally for bullying and eating disorders

I lived near Bexleyheath and went to the girls grammar school, I understand it's difficult to get into now . I definitely wouldn't want to live in Gravesend .
I now live in Chelmsford and the grammar schools here are also difficult to get into.
Beaulieu school has just had an outstanding Ofsted report.

Living in Essex I definitely wouldn’t choose where I live based on the possibility of my child getting into a grammar school. In my child’s primary it was a case of 1-2 kids per class passing the 11+. Many who took it and failed had superb SATs scores, were on the ‘top table’, not to mention some had years and years of coaching/tuition.

Also you say diversity is important to you. The grammars in Essex that I know are pretty diverse ethnically but really undiverse in terms of social economic background.

Just wondering why you’re considering Witham if your mum lives in Gravesend? Have you looked at Southend or Westcliff grammars? If you live within catchment for either it is much easier to get a place than Chelmsford or Colchester and closer to Gravesend as well.

This is my experience too. It’s exceptionally difficult to get into CCHS. I went into it quite naively and wasn’t prepared to aggressively tutor my child. Unfortunately she missed out by the tiniest margin. It’s very cutthroat.

There are plenty of academically able girls in her (large) primary school, but only two got a place. The year before, only one got a place. We are in the outer catchment.

I also agree that the school is very ethnically diverse, but also very affluent/middle class. I was concerned that my daughter would feel out of place amongst girls who played multiple instruments to grade 8 etc etc.

Sad to hear that they have a bad rep locally @IDugAnotherHole . I guess these things are par for the course in girl’s schools.

This is a very good point re. Southend grammars.

As long as you live in the borough, in theory you only have to reach the pass mark to get a place. And the pass mark is very achievable. My daughter sat the CSSE exam, did rather worse than expected (compared with past papers - it just wasn’t her day) and still scored well above the pass mark. It’s galling to know that she could have sailed into one of the grammars if she was in catchment, but we aren’t.

I really wouldn't recommend Witham for teenagers, or as a place to live in general, and the commute especially to the Colchester grammars can be pretty gruelling.

You’re looking at a 2 hour journey from Kent to Burnham. It’s 40 minutes from Chelmsford !

chelmsird will not offer you a diverse community. Nowhere in Essex east of Romford will really.

I mean in the ciry of Chelmsford. The grammar schools are very diverse. The communities around them are not!

I assume that you've chosen those two areas for cost reasons? Realistically you'd have to spend a lot more to be in the catchments for the non-selectives that people are recommending. Everyone wants a 'very good' school for their child but I'm not sure how realistic it is to say that you're only willing to consider areas where the options are excellent and there are lots of them...

To be honest don’t put yourself the wrong side of the dartford crossing if you want to visit your mum easily. It’s fine early morning weekends but after that generally very slow going.

Just reread and saw that your mum lives in Burnham, not Gravesend, so Witham makes more sense now. But you still might want to look at the Southend area, though depends on budget obviously!

Kids from the Chelmsford/Witham area also attend Southend grammars and there is transport laid on for them. If you actually move to the Southend grammar school catchment area the pass mark is lower ( 303 rather than over 325 from memory)

There are also some decent non selective/partially selective and faith schools in the area. At least one is rated outstanding ( Eastwood Academy . We actually moved to the Southend area because of the good choice of schools.

The grammar schools are very diverse as pupils travel from all over to attend but the area isn't very diverse.

@Jellycats4life @Jackal313 Thanks. My mom actually works in Southend and says its not a nice place to live.

@AngelsWithSilverWings mom works in Southend and says its not a nice place to live.

Central Southend isn’t very nice. Surrounding areas, like Leigh and Rochford are much nicer

Hello fellow Townley girl!

I can assure you that Colchester is not, “a dump”. That is so rude of you! We have good facilities and are in the process of getting more. Some of the schools here are rated highly and the pupils thrive there. Stop with your insulting generalisations! Rude.

@Pinkflipflop85 hello 😊

There is some spectacular insulting generalisation on this thread generally. I for example would like to refute for example that CCHS is rife with bullying and eating disorders! I honestly haven't had dealings with a more caring and family feel school, the girls work hard, play hard, and they really instill confidence in them. Pastoral side is excellent, I am watching my DD blossom there. I suspect any sniping to that effect locally is down to sour grapes, with no good reason as there are other excellent schools in the area too, Moulsham, Beaulieu etc.

Bottom line is, where you live, where you send your children to school, both are very personal things and will be very different from person to person, there is no one right answer. Choose what is best for you. Maybe that's a busy city, maybe a suburb, maybe somewhere rural, a grammar might be a good fot for your child, or a small private, or a large vibrant and bustling comprehensive. It is personal, and no one's choice is wrong, everyone is different. Apologies OP, I appear to have gone on a tangent!

@Islandgirl2 Southendjas lots of very different areas. We are in Leigh on Sea and I wouldn't live anywhere else. It's a great place to live and bring up children. Thorpe Bay is lovely too but too quiet for me.

But if Witham has been chosen for budget reasons then I don't think Leigh is a realistic alternative for OP. The bits of Southend (or Chelmsford) that would be in budget wouldn't be the ones most people consider desirable.

@Hardbackwriter I hadn't realised how much cheaper Witham is to be honest. I drive through it pretty often and went on a night out there with friends recently and it seems a really lovely place. Surprised to see the prices on rightmove as I always assumed it was quite an affluent town.