Out of interest, anyone else work in a school that “doesn’t recognise unions”?

[Thewayitwould]

This is what our school (academy) state - anyone else? Unsure what (if any) difference it makes.

Is that legal??? Do they mean they won't recognise the right to strike? Or they won't allow you support from union representatives?

Not sure @RiaOverTheRainbow , which is why I’m interested … some teachers did go on strike last week, though. I imagine that it probably means they don’t recognise union recommendations.

I work in an independent which doesn't recognise unions. We have a semi-formal staff/management liaison committee to deal with complaints which aren't serious enough for formal grievances. Some of my colleagues are pushing for union recognition, which would give union reps a seat at the table when discussion pay and conditions, but probably at the cost of losing the current arrangement.

We can still get support from union reps, and strike if it comes to that.

Should say "discussing," obviously.

Union recognition is a specific status in employment relations. Most schools recognise unions due to their public sector nature. What type of school is this?

www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers

Academy.

My DH did when he worked in an English Academy. He left after a couple of years and started teaching in a Welsh state school (we live near the border). Now he's the union rep for his new school.

I'm not familiar with academics as we don't have them in Wales. Does that mean they don't have to pay in line with the government recommendations?

Ours does - not sure if they have to or not.

That's right, @WelshNerd; each individual Academy, or each group (Multi-Academy Trust) can set its own pay-scale, although many stick to national guidelines.

I worked for one that didn't. It was awful.

My school only recognises one union, not any others. So they will only enter discussions with the rep from the union they've decided. So I was forced to change union when I joined the school taking away my choice. Teachers should be able to choose which union they are part of.

They have to recognise them when the staff walk our

Thanks @PhotoDad . Sounds similar to FE colleges and a slippery slope to poor t&cs

What it'll mean is there isn't a formal union recognition agreement with the school. This is quite normal for academies- and often what it boils down to is a formal union recognition agreement usually asks for reps to have a measly one hour a week to focus on being a rep during school time, which the school doesn't want to pay for. With large academies, unions that have formal recognition agreements are allowed to engage in collective bargaining for all staff, whereas unrecognised unions aren't. Generally unions like NEU and NAS would be recognised, whereas e.g. GMB may represent a small number of support staff, but may not be recognised as having bargaining rights with the academy.

I've been a rep in a school without a formal union recognition agreement. The head still met with me, and the academy CEO and head of HR acknowledged my role in certain circumstances. They even allowed me time to go on a training course to be a rep! The lack of a formal agreement was literally because the agreement asked for me to get a small amount of paid time to focus on my rep duties and they couldn't make that work with the timetable, and it meant I wasn't allowed to negotiate on members' behalves over pay- but this was a bit moot as they did pay the national pay scales!

If, e.g. they want to make redundancies, or to discipline a staff member, then there are legal rights around union representation. If the union votes to strike in a legal way, then all the laws around striking, picket lines etc could still apply.

In some schools, I imagine this could be used to refuse a regular meeting with reps, but I think this is a really bad idea for the school and could lead to bad feeling.

Schools cannot legally bar staff from union membership, nor can they stop union meetings from happening, although they can stop these from happening on school property.

I hope this helps a bit!

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

It does. Thanks for that informative reply!

You're welcome

No worries!

There was something on twitter the other week about how no teachers at the Michaela school are part of a union (covered by professional indemnity insurance instead) which I thought was .... interesting.

I wouldn't go near a school that didn't recognise unions. That says clearly to me that they don't care about staff wellbeing.

I used to teach in a school where they ‘recommended’ you were not part of a union. I was part of one anyway. It was an academy.