A question for secondary teachers about behaviour

[Dragonsandcats]

My dc is in year 8 at secondary. They seem to be in a class of consistently disruptive kids. Not bullying behaviour which I’m thankful for but answering back to the teachers, won’t listen to the teachers, throwing a table over, one teacher has refused to do (stopped partway through) 3 or 4 experiments with the kids because of too much chatting. Is this normal? Have things always been like this but I wouldn’t know? I’m worried about the impact on my dc’s education.

Not in all classes but yes unfortunately some are like this. I was physically attacked by a student whilst I was pregnant.

Oh my gosh that is awful, I hope you were ok? I can understand that there aren’t sufficient places available for students like that who are violent and shouldn’t be in the mainstream system. I don’t know what should be done about the annoying disruptive kids.

Agree - can't see how it's any good for the disruptive kids either. What does it teach them about how to live in society other than they can throw their toys whenever they want and good, patient, polite people will be kind and nice to them and give them loads of attention.
There should be schools for disruptive kids - not criminal type kids, but those who need to learn how to behave in group/class situations as well as learning academic stuff.
Not fair on teachers and pupils to have to manage this at the same time as doing their primary jobs of teaching and learning - there's enough stress on that alone without behavioural issues getting in the way.

Well, yes, of course it's pretty common across the board. It's one of the (many) reasons so many teachers are leaving the profession. And of course it's not helped by all the parents who defend their badly-behaved children to the hilt and complain about any sanctions they might be given.

It is the modern world
I assume it is a state school
If a teacher discipled a kid the parents would complain and there will be a disciplinary
Just keep on taking the money

What are the consequences for these feral kids?

What do the school say they are doing about it?

In DDs school they would definitely be suspended, if not expelled.

consequences Appear to be a detention which they don’t bother to go to. Although that’s just anecdotal. I find it frustrating, I feel for the teachers. I know suspensions are possible but isn’t it hard to expel kids? Don’t they just go to another state school. Which is clearly a massive failing by the government.

Consequences for the kids isn't a 'thing' these days. It's consequences for the staff.... "what supports have you put in".

Schools can't 'do' much, most expression of anger etc is an unmet and therefore the teachers bag...

Exclusion (temp or permanent) is almost unheard of in Scotland, due to the child having emotional issues, Nurture issues or is ND and needs are unmet. Again, all the teachers problem. Hence strikes in Scotland unrelated to pay but based on violence at work have happened over the last 6 months. Teachers and support staff with broken limbs, stabbings and punches in the head.

This is why so many leave.

@Dragonsandcats yes it's hard to expel kids, but I do know DDs school don't keep kids in who don't tow the line. Some are educated off site but still on roll etc.

OFSTED say they use exclusions too much in her school, but I'm perfectly happy with that because she is getting an absolutely top notch state education in an absolutely fantastic school. And it's because they take absolutely no shit off the kids.

How does the school group pupils? Some schools will put kids into different sets for different subjects. If I've got a Y8 set 5 science class then they won't get to do much chemistry tbh as a very high % can't be relied on to not dick around. H&S responsibility lies with me, I'll be to blame if someone gets hurt. If it's taught in form groups then anyone who messes around could get sent out so the experiment can continue for the rest. Unfortunately, we don't always have staff to send these pupils to so they end up bouncing around the corridor, kicking doors in and screaming through the window whilst riling up others.

Also, lol at suspension. We can issue detention which parents don't often support so the kids don't go. Anything more than that is way above our heads. SLT can take it further but there's just so many. Occasionally a high profile pupil will go off to an Alternative Provision for a while but someone soon steps up to fill their place.

@YouMadeABear it seems to very much depend on the school then. I know bad behaviour is not tolerated in DD's school. The Head tells prospective parents at the open evening the rules and says "if you don't think your kids can stick to them, don't send them here cos they won't be staying here."

Conversely, there is a school with a bad rep near to DD's. Her school take kids on managed moves from this school and they do well once they move.