What is the purpose of this school rule?

[NewFriday]

14yo girl generally well behaved and achieveling well at school, but autistic and finds the unexpected difficult to deal with. Has an EHCP.

She has an ankle injury and agreement that ftb she won't do PE.

She's turned up to her PE lesson in full and correct school uniform but she should have been in PE kit. Teacher has given her a detention for this breech, leading to great upset and a very difficult day for all concerned.

I'm generally very much in favour of supporting the school and it's rules, but I'm struggling to with this one. Why would a school issue a detention in this circumstance? I.e give me the justification so I can support it. Ordinary state comp in an area with lots of social problems, if that makes a difference.

Ugh, why I hate uniforms. I think the philosophy is that strict adherence to the letter of the law on minor violations makes gross misconduct less likely? Slippery slope philosophy? Don’t buy into it myself, but some schools seem to wrap themselves in nots about letter of the law rather than spirit.

Yes, I kind of understand a strict uniform policy (although I do think it sets some children up to fail) but this child was in correct uniform for ordinary lessons, she just hadn't put PE kit on on PE day because she wasn't doing PE.

Kids usually have to change into PE kit for PE regardless of level of participation. Sometimes they might be asked to referee or act as a timer or something.

However as your DD is autistic and may well have missed observing that expectation from others, and has an EHCP, it might be worth contacting the school to ask them to make expectations clear as per her EHCP before issuing a detention for non-compliance.

Well they seem to feel the need to stick rigidly to their rules. Issues with kids being given an inch and taking a mile maybe??
In the scenario you describe though it does seem harsh and a bit unreasonable.
Why insist a kid who is not doing P.E is wearing their kit??
Seems a bit weird to me.

Yeah, my DC has had a detention for this too, same scenario. It is bollocks, imo, but the reasoning we were given was that even if unable to participate in all the physical activity pupil is expected to be ready to assist e.g. like a sports coach wears a tracksuit pitch side despite not playing.

We asked school to reconsider the sanction based on it being bollocks not being a clearly understood rule, but they claimed pupils should and do know this rule so…

As I say, bollocks and our teen understands we think so!

Lots of children try to get out of PE because they don't want to get changed, take out jewellery or clean off make up. If you have to get changed anyway you might as well do PE.

However, I never did understand this rule where an injury was concerned. Just write in saying getting changed was too painful due to her injury and if the changing rooms are small she's at an added risk of causing further injury and hitting it on something although they may well say she needs to wear the top half. At my previous school it was literally a button and no PE kit = trigger for detention and we weren't allowed to deviate unless a parent contacted the school directly.

I agree with you OP. As a teacher and mother of a DD with autism. I'd be going mad. Get in the phone to her HOY/H and the sendco. Or hopefully you have their email. No way would that fly where I work. That reaction from the teacher would have caused my DD to shutdown for most of the day. Completely unnecessary. I don't think that punishment is necessary for any child in those circumstances but given her needs, it's completely shocking.

Yes, this is my feeling. Even if the school thinks the rule is necessary, it wasn't appropriate to sanction this child given her well documented needs, which the school is supposed to be meeting.

I'm not her parent, but involved with the family in another professional capacity.

What the school has actually done is create a huge amount of work for themsleves. Dealing with the fallout form the girl on the day and subsequent phonecalls and meeting with the parent. I know schools and school staff are under pressure, why create such unnecessary work? I'm afraid for the families I work with it does often feel like schools want their DC to fail.

Keep in mind it is unlikely the class teacher made the rule but rather a whole school "no excuses rule" that they have to follow. In my previous school we were instructed to pull each other up if we were seen to not be following the rules and being lenient and to notify the head if the teacher did not toe the line. Note that it is a 'previous' school as I've left education completely because of rubbish like this. However, children with additional needs were often exempt from the sanction given by the teacher, not before it caused considerable disruption to that child's day though.

This is the practice at my DD's old school.

At our school it is a rule “sick or fit bring your kit”. Parents can write a note but it is up to the teacher to decide what they can participate in so a note does not excuse you entirely from the lesson. They get them to referee for example.

The purpose of the rule is to stop kids trying to get out of PE.

If she is 14 I expect she has been at the school for some time now so they would expect you and her to be familiar with the rules.

I don’t know the reasoning, but it’s ridiculous in the case of a proper injury. DS had his arm in sling from a dislocated shoulder, they told him he had to get changed, I ended up saying if that’s the case he won’t be in school as it’s not reasonable with the sling on. In the end they agreed he had to have his whole kit ready for inspection and would have detention if he didn’t! crazy. Thankfully he’s now at a different education setting. DD is about to start there though, so all the fun to start again!

Yes, well you might expect someone posting on MN to read something properly before laying into an autistic child and her family (which I am not)

I hope you have success with following up with the school.

My DD's school also have this rule and also insist that the students go out to the side of the pitch/field/hall/wherever. As my DD's reason for not doing PE was that it was difficult and painful for her to walk, being forced to walk out to the school fields (good length walk away) actually made things worse. However, appealing to her head of year was successful in our case (she was allowed to sit in the library during PE lessons) so definitely worth a shot. HoY said they have a blanket rule to avoid arguments with the students.

I have not laid into anyone. You asked for possible reasoning for the rule, I simply explained how it works in our school and why they have the rule.

I also have two autistic children at secondary school and If I raised this issue they would still expect both us as parents to be aware of the rule and the children, having been at the school for some time.

I was simply telling you what the school’s response would be. Ours would refer us back to the home school agreement showing the rules that we signed each September if we said we weren’t aware of a rule.

PE departments are the bane of every school, they do nothing but make kids hate sport & exercise.

I would complain on the grounds of her EHCP.

Not every school, I promise you.

I have a child who was never keen on PE, but during year 10 and 11 she really enjoyed it. They siphoned off the stronger athletes into another group, gave them some choices in what they did, used imaginative ways to ensure that even the weaker players were fully involved, promoted great teamwork (sometimes she was working with friends, but even working with those she didn't really get on with went well).

The main aim of KS4 PE ought to be to help the kids find a sport they're willing to continue with. Not quite there with mine; she has found a sport she enjoys, and sometimes plays with friends in the holidays, but hasn't got organised on playing regularly. However I'm glad to know that she has something she will be willing to take up when keeping fit becomes more of a priority for her.

I would query the detention explaining that it is slow and painful for her to get changed due to the ankle injury and if there is a genuine reason why her autism makes it hard for her to follow this rule, mention that too.

To your DD I would say that the life lesson is that someimes people in charge act like fools, slavishly following rules to the letter rather than thinking for themselves, and that the lesson for her is to learn how to deal with this with good grace and keep her emotions in check while evaluating privately in her mnd what she thinks of such people.

Is she allowed to use the detention time to do homework?

I do think future generations will look back on these obsessions with uniform rules, and some of their effects (children roasting in blazers in 30 degrees, soaking from lack of an appropriate coat, sitting in 'isolation' all day for wearing comfortable black trainers, the sort of crap detailed in the OP), the way we look back on corporal punishment.

And tbh, if it's that common for kids to want to get out of PE, I'd be asking why rather than trying to ensure equal opportunity misery for participants and non-participants.

YANBU.

Why does a child who is not doing PE need to wear a PE kit? It’s insane. Getting changed for nothing, when changing is painful and difficult due to her injury. I would absolutely kick off over this.

The main reason is because the pe teacher is responsible for the child during the lesson. The reason for the change of clothes/footwear is so the child is in that appropriate area, ( pe department/field) if the child wanders off they can just go anywhere, in the school if in uniform. The footwear is for safety ( football pitch) and so school shoes don't get ruined. If the child has sen why didn't they just go to the sen unit. For context my ASC DS doesn't take his pe kit when I decided he's not to do it on the basis he would just try to do it regardless of injury. If a child doesn't have the ingredients for food tec they have to work with another pupil, which isn't fair on child who's brought their ingredients. Most of the rules are outdated.
I would also argue its unfair

Yes that's appalling. I can only think they weren't actually thinking.

DS is ASD and would be upset by this.

But his teachers are incredible and treat him appropriately for his needs.

It is a completely normal rule

It means children who make up excuses to avoid PE because they dont like getting changed have no incentive to make up the excuse.

It means children who cant do a full PE lesson, might find they can do just a little bit of it, and are already prepared

It means parents who want to keep their children's arms or legs covered up for nasty reasons cant get out of bare arms and legs being seen by making up reasons they cant do PE

It means children cant lie about their health because they have forgotten or lost their PE kit.

It means any child trying to "slip away" from the PE area when the teacher is concentrating on participating children can be easily identified if seen, or caught on CCTV

Changing into PE kit and back keeps child occupied during the changing part of the lesson,

It is a normal rule and there are many reasons for it

However, if I was your daughter's teacher, and she didn't know the rule and didn't understand the punishment, I would have let it go just once

Ds has undiagnosed but agreed SN. School rules and the fuckwittery of it had us change schools.. For example isolation for :
Broken shoes when shoe shops were closed due to Covid.
Tie stolen by another pupil caught on cctv.
Going to the toilet when refused despite having legitimate toilet pass.
Not making eye contact therefore defiant - suspected ASD.

Isolation for not making eye contact That is positively Orwellian.