What do you think about reformed gang members working in schools?

[NewFriday]

We are seeing more and more of our children affected by and involved in gang activity - leafy mostly affluent area on the other side of the London Green Belt.

We are also getting increasing approaches from ex gang members who have set themselves up as mentors or running workshops, with the aim of reducing children's vulnerability to gangs. They don't come cheap, about £4/500 per day usually.

If they can be effective, it's work that needs doing, but I'm not convinced. e.g. one came in and told us all about the horrors of his early life, but it still sounds quite glamourous to certain students. Then about how much better his life is now he's doing this work - an opportunity that wouldn't have been available to him, if he'd stayed on the straight and narrow since childhood. He'd likely be in some minimum wage job from his background.

It also means we have the prospect of people with convictions ranging from drugs, to weapons to actual murder wanting to work with our children in and out of school.

The murder thing is true. There's one very high profile "mentor" working 121 with students in several local schools who's DBS includes murder. Murder when he was 18, a long time ago, but still. We haven't employed him, but he has complained about our approach to the LA and is bad mouthing us to other schools because we're not supporting our children to learn about gangs the way he thinks we should.

I'm not convinced these are the people we want working with and influencing our children, or am I being unreasonably cynical? The traditional methods don't seem to be reaching them, after all.

It sounds well intentioned but where is the research that this is effective in encouraging children to avoid becoming victims of gangs? The risks are that you unknowing allow someone to target vulnerable children and recruit them into organised crime and reading a CV or asking schools how their sessions go is absolutely not going to provide you confidence in your decision making. I'm not sure if it still runs but Prison Me Noway used to be a voluntary group of prison and police working together to deliver sessions in school that may be impactful without the obvious risks.

Even an ex gang member coming across in prison a Chaplin or someone who is like a mentor having interventions of having activities that are beneficial in some way , such as coming across in the libarey a interesting book that just resonates with them all seeming small steps 🚶‍♀️ that create a bigger perspective about themselves in the world,
Such as having support with doing something educational. Etc

no need to get shitty because you’ve been called out! You are stereotyping! Those I’ve known that have been in gangs have been predominantly white and Asian.

Then you need to think about ways of minimising any risk to the vulnerable children you're sending into those sessions, could they be supervised/ chaperoned?

I would also ask what techniques and models the speakers will be guided by in their interactions with individual pupils. Someone legit would hopefully be able to mention something about motivational interviewing or the GROW model of coaching for example. Even if they don't have a specific model they use, just starting this dialogue should give you a sense of how professional/ credible their set up is. If they get uppity about being quizzed I would run a mile.

These types of speakers can be brilliant, but I’d look at established organisations like St Giles’ or smaller charities that are commissioned by the local authority, rather than one man band set ups. They will have done all the necessary checks and have a proper framework they’re working to.

I wouldn’t touch this guy with a barge pole for 1-2-1 work. You need to do more research if you want to find mentors that can work with children on the edge of criminal exploitation. MOPAC might be able to point you in the right direction. These kids are some of your most vulnerable - they need the most skilled and reliable professionals working with them.

It worries me that schools are in the position of guessing whether or not something like this is a good idea. Money should be being invested in plenty of extra curricular engaging activities that limit the opportunity for our children to be preyed upon by organised crime gangs to facilitate their drug empires.

I always feel weird about this too. There's a good Findlay Christie TikTok about guys like that: "Just remember that crime doesn't pay kids - though I am being handsomely paid now, so technically it does"

It's the fact they're being paid as much as top teaching and learning consultants that annoys me - while pretending they're doing it to 'give back'. I'm sure most are well intentioned but they're so expensive at a time I can't easily afford books for my kids.

I'm a teacher I should add!

@NewFriday I don't know - Paul Hannaford seems to be the main guy doing this round our way and he's white.

Just because he's redeemed himself in a criminal sense doesn't mean he's suitable for working with children. There are so many things that could go wrong in a 1-1 setting. Protecting children from harm is the key concern. I am very shocked that so many schools are allowing 1-1 sessions, what happened to safeguarding?!

I don’t know enough to have an informed opinion on this. This looks like a good source of information and advice. There are lots of clips if you scroll down.

lgfl.planetestream.com/Default.aspx?search=*&o=8&pagesize=50&page=1&catid=28

I found the link here. There may be other helpful links there www.solgrid.org.uk/education/education-improvement/health-and-wellbeing/safeguarding-through-the-curriculum/gangs-and-youth-violence/

What they say, how they say it, and how they look, may not sit comfortably with everyone, however, if the purpose is to stop children joining gangs, hearing from ex-gang members will probably be the most memorable and effective way for kids to understand the realities of gang life, which by its nature, will involve money, violence, drugs, prostitution, and death.

Ironically, all of which are glamourised by the computer games many of us allow ours kids to play daily.

Definitely get recommendations/testimonials from other schools or the LA. 121 can work well but need to be carefully supervised with all safeguarding in place as kids needing 121 mentoring will already be vulnerable and potentially at risk.

And yes they should be paid, like you pay other speakers, they have rent and bills to pay like the rest of us.

I listed to this the other day. Interesting but doesn’t sound like he’d be for you. Ex gang member helping kids, although not ones who are in mainstream school.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=h6CyZwPMQw8

121 work with vulnerable children requires professionalism, skill, supervision and a safeguarding plan, whatever their background. Just because a person was in a gang and now isn’t, doesn’t make them safe. If a person can’t provide that then don’t let them do it.

For large or small group talks, I’d ask to see a video or session plan before employing them.

We wouldn't, but schools are doing. In fact we know about his DBS because he presented it when he came to work with a child who was with us on a managed move - the previous school had arranged it and the LA virtual school (the people who look after children in care) asked us to continue it.

He presented the DBS without comment and the poor receptionist went white. We didn't let him have any sessions with this child, but have had quite a bit of criticism for it. I believe the LA may have continued it out of school hours.

Can you escalate your concerns about this anywhere. Doesn’t seem right at all that someone with a conviction such as murder should be allowed to work individually with a child. I’d be willing to kick up a stink about that. Especailly if he’s not even working for a well known organisation or charity. Who’s supervising his work?

Well as far as we know, no harm's been done and he does appear to have helped the boy when no one else could. So what would we be complaining about?

He is working for a wider organisation.

OP, you know this is not OK. If you feel this kid is being put in an unsafe situation you have a responsibility to report this. It doesn't matter that it is a school or the council facilitating these sessions, if they're putting the child at risk you need to do something. I also find it very strange that you suspect it might have continued outside of school hours. If it's too risky for you to sanction it in school hours, it's too risky full stop. I'm "just" a teacher but safeguarding is drummed into us, with a not insignificant focus on not assuming that something is OK or not your responsibility.

Oh sorry I thought he was an individual.
can you say which organisation?

is he not on the barred list then?
mid be tempted to write to someone senior at the LA to raise your concerns regarding him doing 121.

Nope. I’m absolutely fed up with external agencies/companies/lobbyists demanding access to schoolchildren then charging taxpayers a fortune for it. Nope nope nope.

This talk will not prevent anyone from a life of crime. “Wow I was gonna join a gang but that talk at schoop made me change my mind” nope doesn’t hapoen. Children join gangs for complex reasons including loneliness, fear, poverty, a yearning for power and a desperation to belong. A talk at school won’t help with any of that.

Buy £500 worth of art supplies and spread a little joy instead. Perhaps someone will turn to a life of art.

Every time I go where I grew up I see 20 year olds with kids from about 11-15. They are the runners aka the 20-30 year olds are the people who own the drugs but they have the teens there for point of sale. If they get robbed/stabbed over it, the 20 year old can replace them easily and police are less likely to stop children. Hearing friends of ex-friends speak, I heard X is in prison, Y splashed someone with acid etc. Once they’ve grown up, having a criminal record makes an honest life difficult and so the cycle continues.

I know someone who was shot because they were selling heroin and someone broke into their house. They lived but only because the bastardised shot-gun malfunctioned. Their intestines did fall out onto the floor though….

Better the kids hear about how unglamorous going “counch” is from someone who has done it. (It’s an excursion that involves staying in a bando/trap house/prolly a crack addicts house to supply people with whatever they need when they call.) If I was a 14 y/o who didn’t eat every day because of the cost of living crisis and my friend told me I could make £1k in a week I would be tempted. If I heard that you have to worry about the addict I’m staying with telling everyone I’m 5’5 and to come rob/kill me and they’ll split it, I might change my mind. Someone I know went and had to sleep with one eye open because of the cockroaches and if they had been robbed, their suppliers would have made them disappear …. or reappear with iron marks on their thighs as a message as in the case of another person I knew.

Let the kids know.

I'd be grand with it.

Saw this when I was training. At the end of the session he encouraged all the children to contact him on social media follow him on Instagram etc.

Couldn't get over that the teachers (who would all have had clean or only very minor issues on their DBS) were strictly forbidden from doing this but someone with a self confessed history of drug dealing and gbh was fine.