What do you think about reformed gang members working in schools?

NewFriday · 2023-01-26T17:00:15+00:00

We are seeing more and more of our children affected by and involved in gang activity - leafy mostly affluent area on the other side of the London Green Belt. We are also getting increasing approaches from ex gang members who have set themselves up as mentors or running workshops, with the aim of reducing children's vulnerability to gangs. They don't come cheap, about £4/500 per day usually. If they can be effective, it's work that needs doing, but I'm not convinced. e.g. one came in and told us all about the horrors of his early life, but it still sounds quite glamourous to certain students. Then about how much better his life is now he's doing this work - an opportunity that wouldn't have been available to him, if he'd stayed on the straight and narrow since childhood. He'd likely be in some minimum wage job from his background. It also means we have the prospect of people with convictions ranging from drugs, to weapons to actual murder wanting to work with our children in and out of school. The murder thing is true. There's one very high profile "mentor" working 121 with students in several local schools who's DBS includes murder. Murder when he was 18, a long time ago, but still. We haven't employed him, but he has complained about our approach to the LA and is bad mouthing us to other schools because we're not supporting our children to learn about gangs the way he thinks we should. I'm not convinced these are the people we want working with and influencing our children, or am I being unreasonably cynical? The traditional methods don't seem to be reaching them, after all.

OnMyWayToSenility · 26/01/2023 17:07

He sounds a bit miffed! Which is not a good sign tbf, I wouldn't either.

But I do think someone who has been there and knows how these county lines work would be a good thing for children on the edge of deciding to go down that route.

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:12

Hmm, I certainly wouldn't be supportive if they were glamorising it in any way, or doing it to boost their own ego rather than genuinely wanting to help children from going down the wrong path in life.

Original poster

NewFriday · 26/01/2023 17:13

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:12

Hmm, I certainly wouldn't be supportive if they were glamorising it in any way, or doing it to boost their own ego rather than genuinely wanting to help children from going down the wrong path in life.

How do you know the difference beforehand?

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Nimbostratus100 · 26/01/2023 17:17

why are you the person deciding?

I have worked with several "reformed gang members" in schools, and they have done a great job. I dont know who decided they passed muster though - and I am very glad it wasn't my decision

Whoever makes the decision needs to be fully informed, and highly trained and qualified to decide

Unfortunately, I can forsee a situation where the person making the decision is simply the pastoral deputy head who is qualified in MFL....

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:19

How do you know the difference beforehand?

I'm assuming you meet them, do some research, ask other schools how their sessions are, get some examples of their content and style of delivery and personality? Or do you just invite any random ex gang member into your school?

Original poster

NewFriday · 26/01/2023 17:19

Nimbostratus100 · 26/01/2023 17:17

why are you the person deciding?

I have worked with several "reformed gang members" in schools, and they have done a great job. I dont know who decided they passed muster though - and I am very glad it wasn't my decision

Whoever makes the decision needs to be fully informed, and highly trained and qualified to decide

Unfortunately, I can forsee a situation where the person making the decision is simply the pastoral deputy head who is qualified in MFL....

I'm part of the SLT that decides. And this is it, we're all middle class white people with no lived experience of any of this.

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Nimbostratus100 · 26/01/2023 17:30

Then its a decision you are not qualified to make - I am sorry you have been put in this position. I guess all you can do is take advice from someone better qualified. How about the probation service? WOuld they advice? Or point you in the right direction?

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:32

Also if they're charging 500 quid a session, that's just greed, and I'd be saying no on that basis alone!

AxisOfEviI · 26/01/2023 17:32

Depends who they are. I've met some brilliant reformed gang members who have provided really good training.

AxisOfEviI · 26/01/2023 17:33

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:32

Also if they're charging 500 quid a session, that's just greed, and I'd be saying no on that basis alone!

It's not an unusual amount for training? Often it's a lot more than that.

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:34

It's not training, it's them speaking to students about not getting into gangs...

Original poster

NewFriday · 26/01/2023 17:40

Nimbostratus100 · 26/01/2023 17:30

Then its a decision you are not qualified to make - I am sorry you have been put in this position. I guess all you can do is take advice from someone better qualified. How about the probation service? WOuld they advice? Or point you in the right direction?

I'm sure it will be a decision taken by SLT in most schools. I don't know who else is going to make it. Maybe the governors, who will often be from similar backgrounds.

£500 is about the norm for a visiting speaker/workshop, but it is a lot to be making out of "doing good" and helping others learn from your mistakes. It probably is much more than they would be able to make if they hadn't been gang members. That's one of the things I'm struggling with, the lesson that there's a good living to be made out of being an ex gang member.

Also, the nature of the work is that they'll run 121 sessions with some students, so we won't know (be sure of) what's being discussed. That's often the case with e.g counsellors and school nurse, but this feels different.

OP posts:

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:42

Do Parents get a say in whether their children get 1-1 sessions with an ex con?

Nimbostratus100 · 26/01/2023 17:47

NewFriday · 26/01/2023 17:40

I'm sure it will be a decision taken by SLT in most schools. I don't know who else is going to make it. Maybe the governors, who will often be from similar backgrounds.

£500 is about the norm for a visiting speaker/workshop, but it is a lot to be making out of "doing good" and helping others learn from your mistakes. It probably is much more than they would be able to make if they hadn't been gang members. That's one of the things I'm struggling with, the lesson that there's a good living to be made out of being an ex gang member.

Also, the nature of the work is that they'll run 121 sessions with some students, so we won't know (be sure of) what's being discussed. That's often the case with e.g counsellors and school nurse, but this feels different.

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I'm sure you are right - a lot of decisions get made in schools by people not qualified to make them. Yes, I have suffered the deputy head qualified in MFL who called a whole school assembly to announce lockdown and explain social distancing.....

Reugny · 26/01/2023 17:48

You are being unreasonably cynical.

You need to go to see these people in action as well as talk to them properly, but I doubt you have the time due to your other commitments.

There will be a group of pupils in your school who need this approach to keep them on the straight and narrow.

Bbq1 · 26/01/2023 17:50

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:12

Hmm, I certainly wouldn't be supportive if they were glamorising it in any way, or doing it to boost their own ego rather than genuinely wanting to help children from going down the wrong path in life.

Of course they aren't glamourising it. That's a crazy comment to make. They are trying to prevent children following their path in life. It's far better coming from someone who's been there than a stuffed shirt standing there preaching to the kids. My ds was in Year 11 last year and they had an ex gang member in talking to the pupils. We live in a city with gang problems like all big cities but the school and where we live is one of the leafy, affluent suburbs so not a rough area. My ds and majority of his peers are respectful, law-abiding good kids but it's still worth hearing. The hard hitting and sad stories really stuck with my son. If a child is toying with that lifestyle hearing it from a reformed gang member might just save them from going down that path.

AxisOfEviI · 26/01/2023 17:51

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 17:34

It's not training, it's them speaking to students about not getting into gangs...

Is that not training?

Blufelt · 26/01/2023 17:54

YANBU. I doubt these people are doing sessions at Eton etc. So why should it be pushed on kids in state schools!

Greenshake · 26/01/2023 17:55

Some of these people are very good and genuinely want to do the right thing. Others are out to make a quick buck and do glamorise the lifestyle to a bunch of impressionable kids. I have seen both types and they are very easy to differentiate.

getreadyy · 26/01/2023 17:58

"Of course they aren't glamourising it. That's a crazy comment to make. They are trying to prevent children following their path in life."

Pmsl. You've not heard of Mr French then? 🤣🤣

Original poster

NewFriday · 26/01/2023 17:59

Blufelt · 26/01/2023 17:54

YANBU. I doubt these people are doing sessions at Eton etc. So why should it be pushed on kids in state schools!

Maybe Eton don't have a problem with students being groomed into gangs (or maybe they do?). We most definitely do, we need to do something. Getting the police, YOT, traditional youth workers in isn't helping.

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icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 18:00

Of course they aren't glamourising it. That's a crazy comment to make.

Err re-read the op where it literslly states "it still sounds quite glamourous to certain students"

icelolly12 · 26/01/2023 18:02

AxisOfEviI · 26/01/2023 17:51

Is that not training?

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No

Original poster

NewFriday · 26/01/2023 18:04

Bbq1 · 26/01/2023 17:50

Of course they aren't glamourising it. That's a crazy comment to make. They are trying to prevent children following their path in life. It's far better coming from someone who's been there than a stuffed shirt standing there preaching to the kids. My ds was in Year 11 last year and they had an ex gang member in talking to the pupils. We live in a city with gang problems like all big cities but the school and where we live is one of the leafy, affluent suburbs so not a rough area. My ds and majority of his peers are respectful, law-abiding good kids but it's still worth hearing. The hard hitting and sad stories really stuck with my son. If a child is toying with that lifestyle hearing it from a reformed gang member might just save them from going down that path.

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It is absolutely better coming from someone who's lived it rather than a white middle class teacher, but I'm not convinced it's good coming from someone who can say, "look how well my life turned out afterwards". These people, by definition have turned their lives around, so being in a gangs wasn't a disaster after all...

I agree they're not deliberately glamorising it, that doesn't mean the culture doesn't still appeal to some of our most vulnerable kids. They often are coming in full of bling, designer labels etc and looking quite glamorous in a pop star/rapper kind of way.

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RedHelenB · 26/01/2023 18:08

I'm sure they'll tell tales of their friends that joined gangs and it didn't turn out well for though.