Winchester - why are they striking?

[Thewickerwomen]

Hello. I saw in The Times that Winchester might strike. Does anyone know the reasons why? (… and can one school decide to strike on their own?)

@barnbaby indeed, they need to up the fees. That will be even more unpopular.

@Benusdemilo I was always amazed by how talented the sons of large donors and those deemed valuable to the school were.

They have been known to write doctorate level papers ! Boys joked about the awards amongst themselves, it is dreadful for moral.Living in that environment is very unhealthy.

@Cardboardcut isn’t that unfortunately reflective of parts of establishment/society, though?

@Peverellshire I would say only up to a point. A partner in a law/accountancy firm can put their child into the office but the nepo baby won’t last long in that cutthroat environment. Likewise with Daddy’s Firm. Daddy can appoint nepo baby as the new MD but the firm won’t last long if the management is ineffective.

As a future Winchester parent the news about the strike and general tone of comments about the school is disquieting. Do any current parents have views to share on all this?

@mnuser080911 I don't think you should worry about Winchester in particular, I think this just made the headlines because it is Rishi's old school. I think the worry is much more wide - all private schools are facing massive problems with changes to pensions, losing oligarch fees, inflation, fuel costs, food costs, cost of living crisis hitting their teachers and the very real potential of VAT being added to fees within the next 5. years. They also have to calm parents who are worried about University admissions now that there has been a levelling up with contextual offers. I would not want to be a head of a private school right now.

I hear good things generally from friends, but don’t have a son there.

From my close experience more broadly with similar girls’ schools, there is a sea change in the culture of the larger public schools as times are tougher, costs are up considerably and the demographics are changing & shifting as shared in a PP.

Not directly relevant but to add I am impressed by Eton & mental health, they have apparently really stepped up & I hear there is excellent, cutting edge help available if warranted.

Lol, some parents don’t even hide it. There was once a cake decorating competition when DC was at prep school and the parent of the girl who won it was quite open about the fact that he’d paid the local professional cake company to make it.

@Peverellshire I have a godson at Eton and I get the feeling there is less push these days - and I think that can be seen in their results, not quite as stellar, but happy boys. They do still have the weekly list which I think is outdated.

@Benusdemilo Did they win? Wow!

@barnbaby makes sense, as & when things get more competitive at Uni level & beyond, what then?

I don’t agree with ‘big academic push’, but I note in States that Uni entry is getting more competitive. Those that would typically be a shoo-in for a Uni just below the Ivys are not making the grade. Those who are studying 24/7 are getting in.

GDST teachers went on strike when the organisation threatened to withdraw from the TPS. The GDST backed down fairly swiftly.

@monitor1 does remaining in the TPS effectively significantly squeeze independent etc, school budgets?

what you are asking is " can and should these businesses pay their staff properly?"

That's not quite true, in that there are plenty of staff in independent schools who are not in the TPS as they are not teaching staff. TPS is the industry standard for teachers but i dont know that its fair to say the same pension scheme for all the other staff is not paying them properly as long as the whole package works. (And very often support staff get the statutory minimum contributiin and teachers get an 18/20% contribution to the new scheme) If going out of the tps makes the whole package worse compared to state or other independents then the independent schools will struggle to staff themselves.

independent schools rely on unqualified teachers, that is how they staff themselves. The terms and conditions can be worse than in state schools, but a lot of their teachers dont have the state school option

They are not always worse, but they are not overall better, either, its a different set of issues, generally - but independent schools are not particularly competitive employers though - its a misconception that parents often have that they are

This is less and less the case... all our teachers have QTS

Presumably, the top name Public schools, e.g, Winchester, which we’re discussing on this thread, are generally alluring to teachers because they’re prestigious & therefore, ‘top’ Indeps/public schools e.g Eton, WA, CLC, can effectively ‘pick & choose’, ahead of Independents which are geographically remote and/or have poor reputations, etc?

Teacher, pay/package details seem be pretty opaque for those not in know (parents).E.g, Would a housemaster at Winchester, expect to earn more, have as good a package, as one at a minor, less well known ‘mediocre’, or even ‘poor’ Indep at ‘bottom of ‘the list’? Would a Maths teacher at say, Wycombe Abbey, ultimately expect a ‘better’ all round, deal than one at a leafy, ‘desirable’ Comp or one with a poor reputation?

Covid has hit many Independent schools very hard in the pocket. Many of the Public schools are money generating where they can, overseas sister schools, etc & all making savings where possible even more than would be standard. In some cases, cutting back to bone.

Renovations, are on hold & increasingly only essentials tackled. PT meetings are still online, they, apparently, are more efficient this way, but it means contact with UK based parents or those that flew in especially, is non existent in person.

PT meetings, not being in person, means good quality lunches & wine etc for large numbers can be economised on, also any internal failings or weak spots of the school are effectively more disguised. Now parents can’t corner the teachers, management team or the head on the spot snd raise ‘difficult’ questions. Easier for school to be able to hide & there is low or no visibility. At social events food, if you look carefully, there are often subtle changes to what’s on offer, no wine, ‘cheaper’ lunches & dinners etc. Increasingly heads of public schools appear to be like the wizard of Oz, behind the curtain, a toothless, clueless (often well meaning) figurehead, as long as the numbers are on track, they don’t really want to lift up the rock, see what’s underneath & make trouble for themselves.

They are often trying to increase boarding capacity at the expense of other things, where they can. Overflow facilities etc, accommodation re: boarding plans, had to be shifted & adapted, due to Covid. More coming in from overseas means the culture will often mean there’s a demand for increased & improved/competitive, academic results.

IMO the ‘traditional’ model re: Public schools doesn’t work any longer in some respects. Some schools have in excess of x10 kitchen canteens & this model isn’t really economically viable long term. Heating, lighting, etc, esp now as costs skyrocketing.
More is moving online within them, exercise books being phased out. In light of increased contextual Oxbridge offers people will wonder at the USP.

I agree @Peverellshire

If you wanted to properly finance the kind of top-end quality boarding school experience that parents think they are paying for, fees would need to be closer to £100 000 a year for it to be a reality.

Instead, your prestigious name may well attract teachers with tremendously impressive academic credentials … but if you make them do boarding duties until midnight, they are hardly going to be teaching their best during the day, are they?

… and traditionally, pay and conditions have been hugely variable (and opaque). Someone might have got a light timetable, high salary and the least crumbling down house on campus … somebody else may be teaching a ludicrously heavy timetable having had no pay progression in years while still needing to pay market rates to rent digs in town.

Kitchen staff can have a horrible time in boarding schools, too. Imagine washing dishes round the clock for that scale of service (breakfast, snack, lunch, tea, dinner)? The pay and working conditions in those jobs make for very vulnerable employees.

@rattlinbog Schools that are for profit, like the one Kate and Wills sent their children to (a family-run business) will be thinking of profit margins. Overseas trained teachers and teachers without QTS will find jobs in those places (… but they won’t be paid very much).

Independent school teachers generally do NOT earn less than those in state schools especially at the better ones (possibly at small break even type ones).

The GDST pay significantly below the pay scale for maintained schools (they don’t honour the pay scale that they publish). They went on strike last year (over pensions, but years of meanness around salaries and no pay progression had made for disgruntled staff).

@Thewickerwomen Interesting. I have seen at some schools you have houseparent young couples with children in cramped accommodation, both with full time teaching roles within the school, too. How can they possibly keep an eye on the girls/boys in their care in a pastoral capacity and an administrative one AND run a family and run a boarding house and do a day teaching job?

Something has to give. Parents can no longer rely on the fact they will hear about any serious problem becoming established, something critical could (easily?) go under the radar. You don't want a serious mental health issue to get a foothold at boarding school. In bigger schools, sometimes there just isn't the communication between 'school' and boarding house, either. I am sure it happens and possibly now happens more frequently due to Covid and other problems discussed on this thread.

Very good point on kitchen staff and knowledge/IME re: a couple of public schools very good, reliable, long serving people, have recently left. Recruitment will be tricky, you'd likely earn more in a supermarket and have a more enjoyable time of it. Hotels too, etc. Matrons in boarding houses etc, that must be a thankless job for many, what's the incentive if pay is low too, and maybe even lower going forward? Sometimes you get the odd person who might not have the right motivation for the job or the right character, at best just a bit strange etc. If everyone and every resource is overstretched problems or unsuitability, again, could go under the radar and not have a good conclusion.

Interesting re: the estimate of 100k re: fees, I am guessing they are going to have to be hiked up soonish, or just won't be viable to run?

@SeasonFinale how much can I expect to earn as a senior Maths teacher at Wycombe Abbey, very approximately? How much might a head of department expect to earn? Guessing there would be some weekend duties, plus? How generous would my package be?

I've been offered accommodation in a private school that wasn't fit for habitation. I've also known staff paid nothing at all, just "board and lodging"

Following with interest

I shared this on another thread but seems relevant here too after reading the discussion
www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/specialist-sector/private-school-sector-has-priced-itself-irrelevance