Musical child- how unusual is this?

[LondonGirl83]

Sorry for the long post!

My Dd is 5 and plays the piano fairly well- she plays grade 1 pieces and her teacher is planning to start her on grade 2 pieces in the new year.

However, she can play pretty much any melody she’s heard by ear with almost no effort and is starting to try to figure out the accompanying chords now (she just does this for fun). She also has very good relative pitch- so if you play any note and name it, she can easily name any note you play after that in any order and often times can guess the first note too. She likes to transpose the songs she’s learning into different keys and octaves for fun as well.

Her music teacher at school and tap teacher have both mentioned she is really strong at pulse and rhythm and her private piano teacher improvises with her and gets her to make up songs and also thinks she’s very musical. She also sings pretty well for her age.

I know she is above average musically but how unusual is this?

I’m asking as she’s interested in lots of things - does dance, swimming and clubs at school. She’s asked to start a second instrument but also wants to do gymnastics, tennis and coding!
That would be far too much so I’m trying to decide which one additional activity to potentially do based on where she might really benefit from it.

She is quite sporty as well but I think her musical talent is more unusual though it’s hard to benchmark.

TIA

@DadTryingMyBest who said someone got to grade 8 in two instruments at age 8?

I'm a music teacher. She's not Mozart but unusually talented. Don't be too pushy. Just let her enjoy it. There is no need for any further provision for her at this stage.

The child who got 2 grade 8s at 8/9 got a distinction in piano and violin with 34 out of 35 points. It was the highest score anyone in living memory in the whole area ever got. Some children are simply very talented at music. Mozart was rare but there a children with similar talents every year. Did you see the blind girl Lucy at the Coronation concert? She just listens to it once and plays. It's astonishing for normal mortals, but definitely real for a handful of children each year. These children then will often congregate at highly selective schools in the South East, often on a scholarship. So in some settings, e.g. at Eton, Winchester, St Paul's Girls, children with to grade 8s at primary school age are 'normal' and now the expected minimum standard for (major) scholarships.

Interesting that so many people appear to think musical ability indicates academic success. It doesn't always, though someone who is musical and does practise indicates commitment and ability to learn.

It sounds like she has perfect pitch! Lucky girl!

My brothers best friend growing up had perfect pitch and it was just the most amazing and extraordinary talent... he could literally play anything you asked.

Hi OP,
My son is talented in music - it just seems to come naturally like your daughter (although he started lessons much later).

His main instrument is piano and what we have come to realise is that none of my son's instruments are core parts of an orchestra which he is interested in so we also might be choosing an instrument. He does see himself being a professional musician for example teaching piano.

Their talent is unusual. I can see this in the reaction of the school and teachers and the opportunities and support he gets to showcase his music. Don't believe anything you are told about how long it takes to move through grades/become an accomplished musician as for naturally talented children these timescales do not apply.

As we have started to look at Saturday consevatoire opportunities one thing that say a lot is "potential" so I don't think it's ever too early to make contact with the right people.
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/conservatoire/music/juniors/courses/young-strings-project. (For example). Find out what opportunities there are in your area for kids showing great potential.

For parents asking how to encourage their kids (although the skills do seem innate) I would say have their piano or other instrument in your main living space so they can hop on it frequently and so you notice if it's not getting played. My son might just come in the room to say hi but he'll probably sit at the piano to chat and riff away.

I think it is difficult to say how gifted she is based on the information given. All of my DC did music, all play 3 instruments and all did Grade 1 exams in Year 1 and all were like your DD at her age. However, because they continued with music in London they were always surrounded by other kids who were far more musical/prodigies/pushy parents in some cases…

I think encourage her to sing a lot too if she enjoys that. And later on I would get here to pick up a rarer orchestral instrument, French horn, oboe, viola or double bass. That way she can make it into the National Youth Orchestra later on if she is really gifted and wants to do it.

For now, I would just let her have fun with clubs and do lots of sports too, to build her body etc. Musicians have a lot of posture issues so if she is truly gifted and makes it later on, then doing lots of sport when she is a young child is actually a good idea.

I don't think piano, dance, swimming and coding is too much. There are 7 days in a week and she would be doing 4 things.

That is very unusual for 5-how exciting! What other instrument does she want to try?

OP sorry I didn’t previously read your other posts. I think Cello is good, Hauser is a famous popular cellist you could both watch. He will perform at the 02 next year in case you are interested… whether you start so early or focus on the piano for now and start later should not make much difference. My eldest started a string much later after just piano and got to Grade 5 distinction in one year in later primary.

Shame the selective private school won’t let her have lessons in school? That would annoy me. She is clearly very able in that regard. My kids were allowed to do music lessons at school in state primary from the end of Reception. Because they were academically able they were allowed to do several ones.

TBH, I'm surprised DD's hands are big enough to play chords at 5 years old. And I would guess she's playing more by ear than you think, as it's unusual to be able to read music before you can read (or are you going to tell us she's a prodigious/advanced reader at 5 too?).

It certainly sounds as if DD has an aptitude for music, and is unusual, although not unique, in being able to do some of the things you describe.

I'd recommend a second instrument, as playing the piano is a fairly solitary business. Joining an orchestra is great for team work, social skills etc, and, just, fun!

@DadTryingMyBest

It's possible

My dd was grade 8 on 2 and voice in year 6 (passed one in the dec, the other in july) she's autistic though so has musical ability but sucks in many other aspects of her abilities quite frankly. I would trade the orchestral standard on 6 instruments and professional singer for a young person without severe mental health issues!

It isn’t a given that children with these skills are great all rounders or extraordinarily intelligent. My ds was ver similar as a young toddler but struggles in every area.

So sorry to hear about your DD’s struggles @gogohmm Hopefully her music gives her some comfort though. So sad when so many exceptional people have to struggle because the world isn’t really set up for them.

She sounds amazing. 😊. I think you are overthinking this way too much. With her talents and her personality she will be able to pick up whatever she wants when she wants. I think you are making a mistake if you are trying to make things she does outside of school 'purposeful' because it really doesn't matter. You don't need to try and optimise her activities.

The fact that it's crossed your mind that she might not suit being a musician but might suit writing music is crazy. She is five, she has lots of time to find things she loves. You need to be careful not to pigeon hole her.

Have a DD who was fairly similar and is now aiming for a career in music.

Knowing a lot of other musical children, I would say that it is unusual but not necessarily at the level where you are ordering the prospectus for the Purcell or Yehudi Menuhin School quite yet.

I would just see how things go and where her interests lie. It does become obvious when they are really fanatical about something. DD has had lots of things she has liked and been good at, but music is where she has been prepared to really put the dedicated work in without much input from me (more a case of not wanting to practice certain things rather than not wanting to practice).

Lot of musicians prefer to do everything by ear rather than read music. DD can read it but chooses not to, and people she works with who have degrees in music and 30 years in the industry are the same.

Don't feel she needs to do orchestral or classical either - DD specialises in voice, but plays two other instruments. She has zero interest in choirs or orchestras, and jazz is as close to classical as she will go. You also don't need to do exams. DD has done exams for one instrument and I wish we hadn't... it's definitely led to slower progress because she gets in a state about it rather than just learning to play.

If she becomes serious, I would recommend having teachers outside school - that way you can be more involved and you can handpick who is teaching. Plus less academic school missed.

Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out

Cello which she can start next year at school.

That would all be on the weekends - she does other clubs at school!

We’ve agreed to 3 activities max on the weekend so we have enough family time as well.

She is tall for her age - the height of a 7/8 year old with hands that match and long fingers so typical chords aren’t an issue.

She does a different short sight reading exercise as part of each of her practices so I know she can sight read, though it’s not her strongest skill and she plays her pieces from memory. She could read well before starting piano lessons so perhaps that’s why.

At the last music festival I was at, the youngest competitor in the grade 8 class was in Y4 (hadn't taken the exam yet). But she was dinky and her mum said they had had all sorts of trouble with having to leave notes out of chords, and moving from using a pedal extender to not etc, and wondered whether they should really have waited a bit after Grade 6 and done more non-exam stuff until she was a bit bigger.

Your DD does sound very musical OP. If she's at a school with good music then I think singing in the choir would be good for her — especially as they start singing in parts and learning to blend.

Personally I loved the recorder at that age. I'd have been no good as a string player, I'm very much one of the woodwinds getting told off for chatting at the back.

I would say your daughter is talented. My daughter started playing the violin at age 5 and passed her first grade age 5 with distinction. She is 6 now, skipped grades 2 and 3, now working on grade 4. She loves the challenge so practising isn't a struggle, and that's why I think she does so well.

Hope you carry on letting her enjoy music, whatever she's playing.

My DS was like this when he was 5 years old. He is 12 now and still very musical (gr 8 piano, gr 5 on second instrument) and if you left him to his own devices he would naturally gravitate towards the piano and composing.

We were conscious to keep him well rounded though, so actively encouraged and supported sports and outdoors. He is very sporty and outdoorsy now, but we parents take full credit for the these endeavours😉

Music is sthing he was simply born with. I think you will find later that your DD will be effortlessly academic too.

Thanks- I don’t even know what those places are! She’s not fanatical though she loves music. However, she loves lots of things.

She picks the pieces she plays and prefers classical ones. I was surprised by this as she likes listening to lots of different things but for playing it’s classical.

Her piano teacher is outside of school and is fantastic with her.

Exactly. Same for my DS even though we rarely listen to classical at home.
These kids are somehow born this way ☺️