Early years advice

[Jacketandbeans]

Hi,

I've got a nearly 3 year old and am looking for childcare for him and my baby from next summer. I've found a setting that can take them both (small setting of 12-15 children of all ages from baby to preschool). I love the idea of them being together and not separated into different rooms. it's very nurturing which I like for the baby but I'm not sure it's enough for my preschooler.
He currently doesn't know any numbers or letters. He can count to 10 and his speech is good. He is a typical toddler and won't sit down to colour or draw etc.
This setting has specifically said they don't do any formal learning, all child led, no writing etc, as it's not their ethos. Lots of creative play, trips out etc as they don't believe in starting too young.
I've found another setting that is very different, has a preschool area for over 3s and separates them from the others unless they are in the garden. They make sure they are learning to sit down and trace letters and doing other typical educational activities.
What would you choose? Ultimately I want them to be happy, but I don't want to disadvantage my preschooler.

Have you considered a childminder instead. Nurturing for both and a smaller setting but with less children could maybe tailer things a bit more so your three year old can do more education type things? Are you back full time or part time. If part time maybe option 1 and then you can do some learning with three year old on your days off?

I would recommend that any child have a least 6 months, but ideally a full year in a preschool type setting before heading to reception. It is a big transition, and preschool will help gently prepare them. While many primary schools communicate that there are no expectations other than self care, my experience is that there very much WERE expectations. I sent mine in to reception and within 5 weeks the teacher wanted to discuss strategies to ‘catch them up’ in literacy - intervention groups, lots of extra homework, etc. it was stressful for all of us, and I take issue with the expectation that a 4 year old should be reading (some will naturally, many are just not ready), but it is the system we live in. Mine went to preschool fwiw, but severely disrupted due to covid.

your preferred option sounds great to me, and probably would have been my preference too, but I would think carefully about how you will support them in the transition to reception. The second option is probably safer, assuming that they have a good provision.

I entirely disagree. Pre schoolers should not be made to sit down and trace letters. There is absolutely no need to get your child ahead.

Reception at school should still predominantly be learning through play.

Other countries don't start formal learning until 6 or even 7. It does not affect outcomes.

Your first setting choice sounds lovely.

@EskSmith i agree with you philosophically- I am from one of those countries where reading isn’t formally taught until ~6 years, and find the uk approach to early years alternatively stressful and depressing. Practically though, if you child is going to be in the mainstream system, you need to prepare them for it. It isn’t about getting ahead - just being ready. That doesn’t mean lots of worksheets - there are lots of fun ways to teach letters and numbers that feel like play, and a good preschool will be teaching through play.

As someone who embraced child led learning with my two, it is magical, but I wish I had spent a bit more time on academic prep to ease their transition. Reception was soul destroying for us all - my two went from enthusiastic, curious, confident kids to anxious school refusers. We ultimately opted out and moved to an independent school with a more relaxed / whole child approach and no sats pressure. They are happy and excited about school again, but it is an expensive luxury that not everyone has access to.

Some really interesting responses thank you, lots to think about.
They will both be doing 3 days 8-5. I'm so so torn. We previously used childminders but struggling to find any that have availability and have enough children to occupy the 3 year old.
All our kids are naturally shy, and take ages to settle with people. I love the thought of them being together and being a comfort to each other, especially for the baby, but don't want that to disadvantage the older one obviously.

We used childminders previously, my eldest (age 6 now) thrived there but there were 6 children and 2 others the same age that he developed a strong bond with and he loved going. He was the furthest ahead in his reception class in terms of reading and writing, but he is that way inclined, his friend at the childminder was an autumn born and ridiculously advanced child, he was able to write stories before he started school and that encouraged my son, but he enjoyed it and they also had hours and hours of imaginative play. She was fantastic. If I could find someone like her I would jump at the chance of that.

Anyway my second born just isn't showing signs of being like that. I would love to be in a school system that doesn't push kids so young, I don't agree with it at all. There are so many children under pressure in reception who are very bright but made to feel like failures as they are not ready to read and write. Some of them are barely even 4! I remember Covid in reception where we had to sit them down twice a day and make them write, and some were in tears on the calls.

I think then as it's three days a week I would go for option 1. You sound like you would feel most comfortable with that option. If you focused on where both children would likely feel happier and ignored the worry about disadvantaging three year old which would you pick? You will have two days to support with academic readiness. X

I would normally go for the more nurturing setting for 3yos but I’m not sure about mixing babies and toddlers in that way tbh. My nursery only has one room but the under 2s are kept separate, there are more rules about no shoes etc for babies and a higher ratio. I’d want to be asking questions about how they manage the age difference, sleeping arrangements etc and different needs of the group within one room. Whether the 3yo will have access to scissors and other small toys that might be dangerous to the babies but useful for development etc.

I teach in Reception. Granted our setting is child led with lots of free play but we don’t expect children to come in knowing letters. Lots come into our school not being able to write anything including their name and most of the them do well. Children don’t need prepping academically for school - our job is to teach them what they need to know. Any Reception class that is saying children need to catch up within 5 weeks of starting is somewhere that should be avoided with a large barge pole. I would also avoid anywhere that gets children to trace letters in preschool - I don’t even do that with my class. My class don’t spend much of their day sitting down either so wouldn’t have needed to practise that in preschool! Send your children to the setting where you feel they be the happiest and where you think they will thrive. The academics will come.

@agirlcandream that is such a relief to hear from a teacher, thank you.
My eldest went to a school that was quite pushy I think, as parents were being told within a few months that their children were struggling or behind.
He has since moved to a new school as we have relocated and this school doesn't perform as well on the 'compare schools' website so I was worried about moving him, but he is really happy there, they are so nurturing and he is learning interesting things but his class are definitely a bit behind his old class in writing. I don't see the mad rush.
My only concern is how the first setting might make the transition harder. To go from all play, and a nurturing homely place, to a school structure might be hard, but either way that transition has to happen at some point.

This is a great post and I was thinking along the same lines. A nurturing setting sounds great, but that's a very big mix of ages. Like the above poster I would be worried that the older children would be restricted in their toys and activities, because staff are more concerned about making the environment safe for the little ones. It's definitely something to ask about, as I just can't imagine how they cater for the needs of all children.

I agree with @EskSmith and @agirlcandream - definitely go for the child centred play based nurturing environment. I used to teach early years and pushing children to try to write too early can actually be damaging instead of helpful for their development. Most people totally underestimate the value of play for child development, it is an essential part of children's brain development. Plenty of time for the more academic activities.
And as for the transition - I would choose a primary school carefully and ensure that the Reception team there are of the same mindset, ensuring an easy transition for your children.

There is a statutory frame work, EYFS, which is all pre-schools/nurseries and reception should be following for ages 0-5, together with non-statutory guidance, Development Matters. These are very clear that there is no expectation of formal learning before school, with the requirements for activities to be child-led and learning through play. So they will learn "literacy" through being read books, turning pages on books, learning new words through chatting to adults, singing rhymes, "making marks" etc and learn maths through counting objects, comparing more/less, identifying simple shapes. By the time they go to reception they may be able to write their own name and perhaps some other letters, but there's no expectation.

So go with the nurturing nursery, having checked about how they manage the different ages and things like staffing ratios. Caring supportive staff who treat children as individuals are the most important thing about childcare, not fancy programmes or facilities.