Thinking of relocating- secondary school comparison

[lking679]

Hi All,

Thinking of relocating out of London/Kent borders. Feel worried enough as it is moving away from the London job market for myself and my girls but also was comparing the schools.
What would you do?

We are in a grammar catchment where we are, and have been looking at secondary school where I am thinking of moving.
You can't compare schools directly on gov.uk anymore but I downloaded the 2018-2019 performance data (i.e. pre pandemic!) and have compared some of the key attainment 8 scores.
Is that the right thing to do and what do you think of the below?
Would you move, or stay where you are and go for the 11+. DD's are currently 5 years, 2 years and 4 weeks but I think 11+ will roll around quicker than I think!
Reasons for moving are to be closer to my family as I'm from the North West, slower pace of life, more rural, potential to buy a bigger house (we're trapped in our 1930's semi here no money to extend and jump to next size house is £200k that I don't have) . No idea if DD's would pass of course but both myself and my husband did when we took it so.. fingers crossed.

See picture (think you need to click on it to see it properly).

It would depend on likelihood of passing 11+ for me.

Those scores will be a decade old by the time your eldest gets there so completely irrelevant imo.
Does dh have family in the same area as yours?

You've got five years ... it's great that you're planning ahead, but be aware that schools can change completely in that time.

If you want to decide soon about moving or staying put, the best thing you can do is make sure you have a range of decent options for secondary, including grammar and state. Because if you fix on a specific one, a) your DD(s) might not get in and b) you might find, once you get to it, that although it had great scores, it wouldn't be the best fit for your DD.

To be fair the school performance hasn’t changed much… that data is available for a number of years and the general trend/ranking of the schools compared to each other is about the same. Obviously grammar school on top!

there are a few secondary school options where I am currently for those who don’t pass 11+ but the one I’ve highlighted probably most likely to get into and the best results currently.

The place we might be relocating has that school, another state school that performs slightly worse and then an independent school we couldn’t afford but potentially does means tested bursaries (doubt that would ever be an option though).

If we were going to do it we’d do it before Jan 2025 which would be deadline for dd2 primary applications. I don’t want to do 2 in year transfers! Plus I think moving before secondary disruptive for all kids who will all be in primaries and have friendship groups by then!

DH family an hour away from where we live but he’s not as close to his sibling (rarely see them) and moving away from his parents would be a blessing for me! They’re quite young (early 60’s), happy to travel and his sister lives near enough to them should there be any family emergencies. He’s quite happy to consider a move for a bigger house.

Kent and Bucks have grammar schools. Dr of the Bucks schools that are not grammars are very good. They are less competitive than London grammars. So look at Bucks too, but where the good schools are only. Loads of people from London do this. Your issue is your 5 year old and a school for them but it’s possible to move schools!

Also, data and results aren't everything ... a school can look amazing on paper, and then when you get in the door, you realise your DC would hate it. Some of the "best" schools in my area are places I would never send my kids to.

You have to get a feel for the schools - which is why I said, try to keep your options open until closer to the time...

Can’t really keep options open if we move to a quieter place though the whole being a smaller location means choices are limited. There’s two high schools basically and one performs better than the other and catchment areas don’t really cross over that much anyway.

Big reason for move would be to be around an hour away from family in north west so bucks and Kent not options to consider.

Doesn’t really seem like secondaries are going to be part of the decision making process then! I guess the fact it’s above average for UK is all I can go on for now.

I'm not a fan of the grammar system so moving out of it would be a plus for me. And your children are to young to know if they are likely to pass the 11+ (and they might have a bad day even if they are likely) and I'm assuming your are not thinking about staying where you are because you like the secondary modern school so much!

Attainment 8 is less useful that Progress 8 IMO. I think you could have worked out without looking that a selective school would get better results than a non-selective one. And tbh statistics only tell you so much anyway (not to mention that 2019 results will be very out of date by the time even your oldest gets to the schools!).

I think you should move area for your other good reasons and worry about secondary school when it comes :)

@lking679
Just pick a leafy lane area near enough to the NW snd see what you get. I mistakenly thought you still wanted access to London.

Based on those figures your fall back school if you stay is not bad at all. We are in east kent here the non grammars get around 20% maths and english at best. Based on the fact we really regret moving out of London and miss so many things I would say stay. Remember this is the childhood your children know and its magical to them.

From your message are you proper Kent or Bromley as different grammar systems. Bromley super selective doesn't effect the other schools as badly imho whereas Kent grammars does. People in Bromley can do Kent grammar test I believe or did when we looked years ago.

Is the school in the new area a grammar?
Attainment 8 will mostly tell you how able the intake is.

Progress 8 scores measure how the pupils performed compared with other pupils with similar KS2 scores, so gives you an idea of whether pupils are performing as you might expect (Progress 8 around 0) or better or worse.

But as others have said, don't get too hung up on scores which may change by the time your children get to secondary (Progress 8 more so than Attainment 8, as teaching staff turn over more quickly than the demographics of an area).

Look at whether the area will suit you; if it's a fairly "naice" area there will probably be some decent schools. Then it's a question of working out where within the area will put you in a good position for the better schools, if they are oversubscribed.

It’s the Bexley grammars we’re in catchment of.
The attainment 8 scores are key stage 4 so they are the GCSE scores in those figures I think!
Yes the idea of leaving the area is really scary especially if I were to lose my job as London has the most job opportunities! But I keep thinking of leaving?!

My plan is just to take it one step at a time and go and stay in one town I’m considering for a few nights with the family.
Leaving a grammar catchment is a negative as they’re great schools…. although I appreciate the system is problematic in itself!

Grammar schools are for their pupils. Its what happens to the others that matters...

We deliberately moved Out of a Grammar area in Yr5 as DD is dyslexic and had no chance of passing. She now goes to what is, on paper, a very average school. But has brilliant SEN support, extra curricular activities, vocational courses etc as well as very high performing pupils. It has brilliant Progress scores. It then feeds into a highly rated college at 16. But on paper... the results look very average as it covers all the pupils.

Thanks it’s tricky for my husband and I as we’ve only experienced the upside of the grammar school system so leaving one makes me nervous.
I’m going to go back and compare progress 8 scores (though I find if pupils got from D to B they can be higher than pupils going from say B to A so it’s a bit confusing)!
Will also look at pupil destinations too!

I would do anything I could to move out of a grammar school area. Luckily don’t live in one but neighbouring authority is, and my goodness it can cause so much stress and upset.

so this year I know of two families with second children who haven’t passed the 11+ and so will not be following their older sibling to the grammar school. Academically they are similar in ability and attainment in primary and in terms of preparation, but one made an error in completing the answer sheet by entering two answers in the same line early on (it’s like a lottery entry) and then realised later on, flew into a complete panic and missed the mark by 3.

the other - maybe was just having a bad day. Both were reviewed but no luck.

its a desperately unfair system particularly that it’s a snapshot of an hour/hour and a half or so of testing.

my children have all attended proper comprehensives all of which have had full range of abilities and have had robust streaming. So of 8 form entry, the top two sets are generally made up of kids who arrived with top sats results (around 110 plus, though obviously will fluctuate year to year) but not for all subjects - so the system responds to children who, say, are excellent at English but struggle with maths by setting for each core subject.

The nearest grammar school I know of has no setting and 8 forms of pupils form around the top 30% of children who took that test on that one day - and the test was non verbal reasoning and verbal reasoning which isn’t necessarily the most accurate of assessing application in, say, creative writing or maths.

anyway - I didn’t mean for this to be so long but it’s something I feel really strongly about.

Schools can change a huge amount in 5 years. When my kids where in primary it went from outstanding to requires improvement in 5 years. This can also happen the opposite way and can also happen in secondary. I would suggest you go ahead with the move then wait untill 1 or 2 years before they start secondary to start looking at high schools.

Schools change very quickly and pressure is immense at the moment. It is very linked to area and whether or not a school is selective/ semi selective. If you move to an affluent area in Cheshire for example you’ll probably be ok. All Hallows’ and Fallibroome in Macclesfield for example.