Do private schools really want kids who depend on bursaries?

[Lavenderfowl]

We live near a prestigious independent school, and I think it might suit DD perfectly. Our local state options are woeful.

From the website it looks like we might stand a chance of a bursary, but we’d need a big one (single mum, currently part-time work only). But would we forever be marked out as the poor relations, and do these sorts of schools REALLY want us ordinary folk?

This is not the case. It's been through a tribunal, and the provision of bursaries was held neither necessary nor sufficient. Though it is of course a factor.

And schools that are not charities offer them too.

VAT on fees (if that's what posters mean by a potential 20% increase) is sod all to do with charitable status - it's an entirely separate and EU legacy part of VAT regime. This could now be changed.

Tax breaks arising from charitable status are estimated to be about £200 per pupil per term (Source, The Guardian, a couple of years ago. I don't know if it's been re-done more recently, but it's clearly nothing like 20%!)

The Labour Party is going to charge VAT on private school fees. Vat is not charged at present on school fees. So charity or not makes no odds if Labour goes ahead with this. As some schools use fee income for bursaries, it’s an issue. As many parents could not afford a 20% increase , it’s an issue for local authorities (more Dc needing places) and less affluent schools who usually have most scraping schools together.

Gove has been propounding that since 2017 - no move really possible then until end of the EU transition period, and then we were in the pandemic.

It's not just a Labour policy, so I think it's a case of when, not whether. Plus what rate - they actually don't want to provoke an exodus, because that could put stresses on the state system.

Changes to that part of VAT need to be done carefully though, as the EU exemption as it stands also covers nurseries and universities. I'm not sure I trust any party to be competent.

And I do feel for parents with DC at specialist schools for SEN, who may not have a realistic alternative at all.

And that's wholly separate from charitable status, which a proportion of private schools have.

No 10 has now clearly said it’s not their policy. Gove is not PM. Sunak is very much pro private schools and the Conservatives have dropped any idea of vat if you listen to PMQs today. So it’s likely to be Labour if they win the next election. They are in the lead in the polls. They want to use the money for state schools. They estimate it’s £1.7 billion they will get. Not if schools close and lots more Dc need state school places.

A review for this was in the Tory 2017 election manifesto, so it has support amongst the Tories.

As I said, I think it's when (not if)

I agree that the next likely time for it to be put forward is by the next administration, and that is overwhelmingly likely to be Labour. But it's on the cards from both.

My thoughts exactly! And when the charitable status goes (which it will under a Labour government; it’s a much easier call than VAT on fees), many of these bursaries will be the first things to go in an attempt to balance the books.

It might be an easier slogan, but the ending of charitable status is far from straightforward, as there is no way at present to turn charitable assets into privately owned ones (and that's a major protection against financial abuses). Also, a badly executed measure could affect other charities which provide education.

The idea has been bubbling round for ages, but there's never been a proposal on how - and this is definitely one with very high potential for unintended consequences.

VAT on fees needs to be done competently, but is way less complex and will raise more money (and probably lead to fewer closures). And has at least some cross-party support.

All of my kids have went to independent school on almost full bursaries. It has been a great experience, they have all done, made lots of friends, never once have they been made to feel like they didn’t belong. The parents are all lovely too. I wish more parents would apply.

ps. None of my kids were super academic when they got offered places. One became very smart with hard work and great teaching.

Thanks again everyone really helpful discussions and I will be talking to the school shortly. Exciting times!

Just because it’s in a manifesto it doesn’t mean there’s any intention of carrying it out. Labour, I think, will. The Conservative Manifesto was 2019. Not 2017. Richi Sunak won’t tax private school parents after what he said today.

It means that there is at least some cross-party support

Sorry if I got my dates in a twist. Tories have been talking about it since at least 2017 (Gove's speeches - he might not be headed for the top job, but he does tend to get things done. He would not have said any of that without decent sounding of Tory support for the policy).

Worth noting that VAT on school fees is an impossible policy to sustain if we rejoin

But bursaries go usually to scholarship recipients first. At my dc school, at least. They usually are the stars of the school, pictured on the cover of every prospectus, and very popular. Bursary applicants are usually ranked by ability, and top performers given whatever is in the pot according to financial need first, until it runs out. There is usually also money held back to help existing pupils whose financial circumstances change, especially if close to exams.

One thing I’ve realised after 6 weeks of scholarship & bursary applications is that no 2 schools do it the same way. It is absolutely mind blowing.

No just for their stats so they can prove charitable status. Bursary kids are rarely completely accepted and the differences are often glaring

Definitely not always the case. Certainly not where dd was, nor those of friends. I only know one girl was def in a full bursary as I knew her parent well who told us a couple of years later. Nice girl, popular with classmates and teachers, good all rounder, (not the brightest in class but in the top few, not the best sports person but managed to reach the school team in one sport). No one would have known, in fact most of us didn't until we were told a few years in.

I assume you are aware of schools where this happens, and/or have experience of it personally, however, this definitely isn't the case across the board.

There’s lots of sweeping statements being made that just aren’t true everywhere! My dd didn’t have a scholarship, just a bursary, she wasn’t a star pupil, just solidly middle of the year and she wasn’t sporty or impressively musical. She had no problem fitting in, in fact she was very popular. She knew who else had bursaries (not sure if everyone knew or just the bursary girls spotted each other!) but no one else ever mentioned it. Apart from one, all her friends were much wealthier than us with bigger houses. Nevertheless, our house was where the sleepovers always happened!

I was a bursary kid. It wasn't a big deal. By the time it was, I was old enough and had nice enough friends for it to not matter! (6th form designer clothes etc)

Some people on here talk a lot of crap! 🤣

As pp said each school does it differently and has their own criteria for burseries. Most are means tested but sometimes there is extra funding for people in specific circumstances. Some examples I can think of: if they're from an ethinic minority group, if they have a health problem, if they have experienced childhood berevement. All depends on what cause the donors were passionate about. My brother donates a small amount to his old school each month for families that otherwise can't afford it. He's not rich and not an Earl or Lord - he's just a normal person contributing £15/20 a month to what he feels is a good cause. Shame if something gets in the way of that.

Yes, they love any student who excels. In our DC’s independent school 20% are bursary and yes they fit in