Do private schools really want kids who depend on bursaries?

[Lavenderfowl]

We live near a prestigious independent school, and I think it might suit DD perfectly. Our local state options are woeful.

From the website it looks like we might stand a chance of a bursary, but we’d need a big one (single mum, currently part-time work only). But would we forever be marked out as the poor relations, and do these sorts of schools REALLY want us ordinary folk?

Nearly all children who go to private schools are in the top 10% of household income/wealth.

Also if it’s a particularly prestigious school the parents will likely be highly involved and will find out about the bursary. It is unfair but they will treat you and your child differently and likely not in an inclusive way

This is cobblers. (As is the idea that parents at major public schools are more likely to be involved in the school than at local private schools, or somehow have a lot line to the accounts dept.)

Although it is true that if you got a bursary to a major public school there will be more very well off kids there, so there will be a bigger gap in lifestyle between bursary kids and the average pupil. However that can be offset by their being a good number of bursary kids (eg as at Eton or Rugby). It also doesn’t apply to all ‘prestigious’ schools, a lot of the Girls Day School Trust schools are highly regarded, but don’t have an especially rich demographic.

Just be aware that most schools require an annual bursary application to prove your situation hasn't changed

There are 1616 pupils at ETON and In the school year 2018-2019, 255 students received a means-tested bursary (averaging a 67% reduction in fees) with 90 students paying no fees at all.
That is an unusually high level of bursaries. But it also makes it clear how it is a minority of pupils who receive bursaries.
Scholarships can carry very small financial awards, although not always. But the ones with very small financial awards are more about kudos than giving financial help.

What are you on about?

Bursaries are confidential.

At my DC school I was part of the group who set up the fund to pay for children with bursaries to go on the school trips. Every year we get lovely thank you cards from the families whose DC have benefited and we still don’t know who they are - and we don’t NEED to know or WANT to know. It is entirely irrelevant.

DD’s school was top 10 and the fees were around £12k when she was there a couple of years ago, so her bursary took it down to £3k. Not insignificant but doable. Not all the top schools are extortionate..

20%+ of pupils with bursaries at DC's top 20 independent school. 8% fully funded iirc.
Fitting in mostly not an issue for the kids - only get hassle/ comments from a few of the rahs who've inherited their parents' boorish prejudices

It WAS obvious who had bursaries though as they were asked to take part/ lead all the events regarding the schools' charitable foundation at open days and parents evening. On results days for GCSE/A levels they were usually profiled too, with a few cringe-worthy interviews e.g. "my dad's a bus driver, and if it hadn't been for XYZ school's generosity, I'd never have had all the opportunities I've had..."

A few raised eyebrows sometimes from other parents, if bursary parents appear to be gaming the system. Parents of one of DC's friends casually told us they couldn't move house until their child had left the school, so as not to 'draw attention from the bursar'. They owned a local building firm and there was definitely some creative accounting going on in terms of declared income!

Must have been seriously creative!! Our bursary forms lead you down a whole new rabbit hole if you own a business. You also declare cars, holidays, you name it. It seriously took me 30 hours. My professional revalidation was a walk in the park in comparison.

Well they certainly seem to here! It’s not too hard to tell tbh

Actually I think I know which school the PP means, and I don't think it is Christ's. If I'm right, then it's a school that used to have a third of its kids on assisted places back in the days of the government AP scheme, but doesn't have nearly that many any more - and is now trying to get back to a higher percentage of bursaries, under a very committed head.

They are charitable? Would you rather them not be?

If Labour get in at the next election, kier Starmer has stated that he wishes to put VAT on school fees. Should this happen will schools no longer award bursaries as they need not prove they are charitable institutions?

I think it depends. The schools with big foundations and/or who are genuinely charitable-minded will continue to give bursaries, I think - some because it's written into the foundation rules, or just because it's a real priority for them. But where schools are less committed and/or are funding most of their bursaries out of current parent fees, then they'll probably cut back on bursaries, as they'll have to try to keep costs down to stop their fees going up a full 20% and losing a load of students.

Many schools genuinely want bursary candidates who make up a reasonable proportion (10-20%) of the student body. Our DD's school prioritises its bursaries for the most in need (would rather provide one full bursary vs to 50% ones). Look for a school that offers a good amount of them and so is more economically diverse if you are concerned about social fit.

@3peassuit I think it will depend. At my daughter's school, bursaries are not paid by fees. There are separate endowments earmarked only for this use and so the change wouldn't make any difference except perhaps the money wouldn't go as far so there would be less to go around. For other schools that might fund bursaries out of fees from current parents (if any schools indeed do this) than they may simply not be able to do that anymore without the fees becoming unaffordable and them losing pupils. Independent analysis has shown that this policy won't raise any money for the treasury as so many parents will have to move from private to the state sector (and the government will have to fund those pupils that switch) that it will probably just about break even.

I was on 100% bursary and I never felt judged.

And on the OP's original question - some schools will be struggling to attract enough bursary applicants who meet both the academic entry requirements and the financial requirements to be able to give away their bursary pot, so they will definitely be wanting applicants.

@LondonGirl83
Unfortunately girls’ schools often don’t have huge endowments from wealthy past pupils. Many of them didn’t work much before or after having Dc. Inherited wealth often being the sole source of endowments. Usydlkg for the odd prize at speech day! They are also usually much younger schools. They don’t go back centuries. Therefore they often have limited bursary funds from endowments and investments. Fees are definitely hived off for bursaries. It’s not a secret. This tends to make parents dislike anyone who games the system. The schools with fewer rich parents have smaller bursary pots too. If everyone is scraping around for fees, they are not paying into the bursary fund!

@TizerorFizz are you saying bursaries coming from fees is more common at girls schools? I can see why that might be so. I can also see these will disappear under labours plans potentially.

I only know how it works the schools near me where this isn’t the case but they are all part of a very old foundation with historical assets to fund bursaries and have received livery company gifts as well as private donations to increase the bursary endowment.

Friend of ds had a 110% bursary for a very prestigious school he did good in it and is now thriving at university

So yes they do want them.

Yes. That's why many have charitable status.

If they don't provide the bursaries they can't have it.

Go for it.

@LondonGirl83
Yes. If you look at the history of girls’ schools, they are relatively recent. Usually set up by a woman benefactor but often alumni didn’t get mega paying jobs. They got married and had DC. Men, going back centuries, owned companies, made money and gave it to schools. Most country based girls’ schools don’t have livery or historical connections to any organisation that’s wealthy. Hence lots of bursary fundraising!

It also explains why universities of a great age have huge endowment funds whilst new ones scrape around for money. Some women were independently wealthy but they could not invest in girls’ schools prior to the Victorian era because there were few to invest in. So the bursary funds have to be raised from fees or donations. Many of these schools are not wealthy.

There are definitely some schools where an extra 20% would cause severe issues with the parent body. Some have lots of “just about managing “ the current fees. A huge hike could be terminal. Some Schools should talk to their local authorities if they feel they might be in danger after the next election. If some schools have to raise bursary funds and hike fees, there will be many parents who simply cannot afford it.

As a PP pointed out, covid has meant that new intake bursaries are much less likely just now as many more pupils who were on full fees are now having to request bursaries due to change in circumstances, Apparently Eton are not giving out any bursaries for new students in 2023 entry as they have already promised all their funds to existing pupils. It's a shame as that year group with not have the diversity that the other year groups have and therefore may be a tricky intake year without the bursary kids to keep it real. They do still have foundation scholarships for state school applicants but that money comes from a different pot and there are only one or two of them.

Schools that offer bursaries want people to take up the places. How many bursaries they have and what kind of discount they will offer varies between schools. Getting a scholarship might mean you are more likely to get bursary at many schools but what affects how much you get in the bursary is your own financial status.

And then, how kids on bursaries are treated is dependent on the school. At some schools most children come from very high income families and there can be a big disparity. At other schools there are lots of scrimpers and savers and it's not as noticeable. In addition some schools are keener on their bursary pupils than others. And finally, the other children themselves can be a lottery, in any school you can have a lovely year group and an obnoxious one.

If you don't apply, you definitely won't get one. If you do apply and a bursary makes it affordable, remember that it's just a school. Many private schools are great, none of them are magic.

If Eton parents need help, just imagine the ramifications with a 20% hike in fees at less illustrious schools! Labour seem to think the vat grab has no costs and will yield a big windfall in vat receipts. I think it will have costs for local authorities! Never mind all the folk who will need bursaries to stay in a school making less available for others. The politics of envy is often a winner though. Sir Kier had a good attempt at it today in PMQ.