Schooling in UK or USA

[mesha123]

Hi,

My husband is considering moving to USA due to a work opportunity there.

My Dd is currently in year 4. I am not sure about the education system in USA and whether it is better then UK.

I am quite worried especially because not only it's a new country but also might be difficult for little one to settle down in a new place, new systems and environment.

Any thoughts please?

I believe that California has seen the greatest movement of middle class ( not retired) people out of state of any region in the USA. A lot of tech companies are moving to alternative states. The previous Californians love the left wing programme , but they don’t like living with its results.

you might have a look at Joel Kotkin for one view on California as an environment .O f course there are others.

Your argument makes no sense, we’re not trying to compare specific schools in the UK to the US, but you’re trying to use the OECD table to argue that Is education is bad and the Uk better and the point is you can’t make that arguments based on the OECD table due to the way US education is structured and works.

If you want to use that table then it means there are many school districts in the US that will rank higher than the Uk on that list as there are definitely districts that will rank lower so that’s the average across all.

Making a decision on US education based on that table is so useless as it tells you absolutely nothing.

And yes my point about Asia is trying to show you what you’re trying to compare, a ranking that assesses all Asian education in one rank will be useless as there will be variances across Singapore, China, S Korea, N Korea etc. same for the US.

Anyway no point having this debate. If OP thinks the schools are that bad and she has such concerns she would be better off staying in the UK and her kids will also have stability especially if the plan was a short term move in the first place.

@dreamingbohemian Whetyer the attack on Paul Pelosi is was domestic terrorism is neither here nor there. There are people pooing and shooting up on the streets. Crime rates are very high. San Francisco has some great magnet elementary schools, but OP’s child would only spend a year there before middle schools. Public urban middle schools tend to be rough unless you win a charter or magnet place. San Francisco has some great private schools, but tuitions are over $40k. If you have friends or relatives to help with exeats, it might be cheaper to enroll your child in a UK boarding prep, then bring them to visit 3-4 times per year. You could stay in the UK and visit during some vacations to enjoy a better quality of life.
American education is in general quite poor. We don’t do enough phonics for young readers. Common Core math does everything backwards from the old way, and discourages tote memorization. Some suburban and rural state schools are excellent with high tax bases, committed parents, and challenging curriculums. Most urban schools suffer from unmotivated students and poor teaching, though the amount spent per student is high. Some magnet or charter schools are very good. Catholic schools are better than many state schools. Most private schools are excellent, but careful examinations of curriculum and leaving destinations is key

you’re trying to use the OECD table to argue that Is education is bad and the Uk better and the point is you can’t make that arguments based on the OECD table due to the way US education is structured and works.

Yes you can show that the education is worse because we are measuring student performance. The tables are from the PISA tests which are the same reading, maths, and science tests given to 15yr olds:

“Created by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), PISA tests the skills and knowledge of 15-year-old students in reading, mathematics and science. Seventy-nine countries and economies took part in the 2018 assessment, which focused on reading, and the data were released by the OECD on 3rd December 2019.”

”Content: The PISA 2018 survey focused on reading, with mathematics, science
and global competence as minor areas of assessment. PISA 2018 also included an assessment of young people’s financial literacy, which was optional for countries and economies.

Students: Some 600 000 students completed the assessment in 2018, representing about 32 million 15-year-olds in the schools of the 79 participating countries and economies.

Tests:
Computer-based tests were used in most countries, with assessments lasting a total of two hours. In reading, a multi-stage adaptive approach was applied in computer-based tests whereby students were assigned a block of test items based on their performance in preceding blocks.
Students also answered a background questionnaire, which took about 35 minutes to complete. Test items were a mixture of multiple-choice questions
and questions requiring students to construct their own responses. The items were organised into groups based on a passage of text describing a real-life situation. More than 15 hours of test items for reading, mathematics, science and global competence were covered, with different students taking different combinations of test items.”

If you want to use that table then it means there are many school districts in the US that will rank higher than the Uk on that list as there are definitely districts that will rank lower so that’s the average across all.
No, only a few above average US schools would also rank higher than the U.K. School average. That’s why the US average is lower by quite a bit.

Making a decision on US education based on that table is so useless as it tells you absolutely nothing.. It a little more than nothing. The average US student performs worse than the average U.K. student on the same international tests in reading, maths and science. These are basic skills that can be compared internationally. This isn’t question of a US student not knowing much about English history…nothing was tested that is influenced by different curriculum or structure.

@Onnabugeisha

Your idea that the entire south and midwest are educational black holes is completely wrong.

Any prosperous suburban of any large city anywhere in the country will have excellent public schools, and bigger cities will also have excellent public schools in better off areas. They also have magnet high schools, with selective admission.

You're also implying that there is a national system of education. There is not. Each state sets its own requirements within the parameters of No Child Left Behind, and within each state, individual school districts have their own standards amd required courses.

All throughout the educational cycle, students take standardised tests, with individual results plotted against local and national averages. Once you get to high school your grade point average is assessed too, beginning in week 1 and continuing to the end of the high school experience.

.......

OP if you're considering a move, you'll need to research schools first. Catchments are strictly observed and you will have to present proof of residence when registering your child for elementary, middle, and high school.

If you intend to return to the UK at any point, I would send your child to a school district that offers the IB curriculum, which is transferable back to the UK. You can look up IB schools in the San Francisco area.

I’ll keep its simple and I’m done here.

Making a decision on US education based on that table is so useless as it tells you absolutely nothing.. It a little more than nothing. The average US student performs worse than the average U.K. student on the same international tests in reading, maths and science. These are basic skills that can be compared internationally. This isn’t question of a US student not knowing much about English history…nothing was tested that is influenced by different curriculum or structure.

It does not tell you much because again for the upteenth time the US educational system is made up of a large number of school districts so a ranking that tries to assess them all doesn’t tell you much. She is going to San Francisco so her decision should be based on the scores for that school district not the overall US.

Likewise if I was moving to NY I would review the NY public school results, I don’t need to know what the results are in middle earth Arkansas or other random places or cities that have no impact on the education my child will get in NYC or San Francisco so the OECD means nothing to my decision.

And to add to that, if the overall ranking is a few ranks below the UK overall then that means the better buffer school districts probably rank higher than the UK doesn’t it? The bad ones will have lower scores which means the good ones will have higher scores right?

So.m based on your insistence of using the OECD table we can deduce the good school districts in the US will rank higher than the UK and the San Francisco Public school system is quite good, same as NYC and Chicago. Chicago has some amazing public high schools that feed into many top universities.

@mathanxiety
Your idea that the entire south and midwest are educational black holes is completely wrong. I merely said avoid the southern states and Midwest. I never said anything about the entire south and Midwest being an educational black hole. That’s something you’re extrapolating.

Any prosperous suburban of any large city anywhere in the country will have excellent public schools, and bigger cities will also have excellent public schools in better off areas. They also have magnet high schools, with selective admission.. Usually, but not always and even after these “excellent” schools are factored in the average is still lower than the U.K. average. The U.K. also has outstanding schools a few miles from failing schools when looking at a county.

You're also implying that there is a national system of education. There is not. I have made no such implication. I even said each State rates and ranks itself so obviously the best school in Alabama could be worse than the worst school in Massachusetts. That’s why you have to look at how the State compares to the US average which then compares to the U.K. average.

All throughout the educational cycle, students take standardised tests, with individual results plotted against local and national averages. and those are the results I used to show Illinois is an average State. The US average is below the U.K. average. Therefore, the average Illinois school is worse than the average U.K. school. The fact that there is variability between schools is not lost on anyone. But averages are useful data points.

Shooter drills… would put me right off…

@Onnabugeisha

I think you need to step back and do more listening here, and stop painting with that broad brush of yours. You appear to be very poorly informed.

As in the UK, the state of Illinois has both excellent and pretty dire public schools. The caliber of school depends on the property taxes any given district levies.

Suburbs with high property values (I live in one such area) have excellent public schools. There are also excellent public schools and magnet schools within the city of Chicago. You have to research the local schools before buying or renting a home.

Yeah, I’m poorly informed. Right-O.
Deapite having lived in 7 US States and sent my DCs to three different US school districts both public and private.
Then in U.K. I’ve lived in 3 counties and sent my DCs to four different U.K. school localities.
Weve moved around a lot. I’m probably better informed than you. You seem very parochial in your view point.

I even went to a few US schools growing up myself when my DF was posted to the US.

The homeless situation is pretty scary in SF.

@Onnabugeisha

You absolutely did dismiss the entire south and midwest in your ignorant comment, and your contention that averages are a significant indicator of performance across an entire state does not lend weight to your argument. It does, however, illustrate the limitations of stats as a way to examine the quality of education in any given state. And it also makes me suspicious that you have no direct experience or detailed knowledge of public education in the US.

@onnabugeisha

The inclusion of ad hominems is another factor undermining your argument.

I'm sorry but I don't think a person who has lived in the US and sent children to school there would have to depend on stats to make an argument on the quality of US education. The fact that you see it as a whole system is a giveaway too.

What nonsense. The Midwest is a great place to raise and educate kids - in fact the recent Forbes listing placed Minnesota and Wisconsin in the top ten of the fifty states for education, with Nebraska, North Dakota and Iowa in the top 16.

My kids are all in the US public (state) school system and I am blown away by the quality. For example, my daughters high school is partnering with an outside agency* on a science initiative, with enrichment opportunities I would not expect outside a university environment.

What I would say though, is "follow the money". In an affluent area, the schools will be outstanding and in less wealthy neighborhoods, less so. School funding is linked to, though not exclusively dependent on, local property tax revenues. The city we moved from recently had public schools that were less well funded and the difference is stark.

As my kids progress through, what I'm struck by is that US schools seem to focus more on breadth than depth, certainly throughout high school. 11th and 12th grades (junior and senior years) are the equivalent of sixth form, and kids take the full spectrum of courses. Most colleges insist on four high-school years of languages, humanities, language arts, science and maths. There is no choosing three subjects to focus on at age 15/16 like there is in England. I think that is a huge advantage of the US system. Now, will the standard for the standard high school Spanish class be as high as A-Level Spanish? Probably not, because kids are doing so many more subjects. I personally feel that it leads to more well rounded students.

Research your school district well and embrace this opportunity!

*NASA. The outside agency is NASA.

Here in Minnesota, very few kids are driven to school. Almost everyone gets the yellow school bus! Two of my three actually catch the bus from directly outside our house. It's like a chauffeur service!

That was their words. They said it freaked them out. Culture shock is a thing.

Yes, the average American child doesn’t get as good of an education as the average British child. That’s a fact.

Their education suffered in the US- also a fact. Despite sending them to a private highly rated school after we realised the A+ public elementary schools were not cutting it. Because A+ is a State rating, and has no relation to how good the school actually is on a National or international level.

Yes they have bloomed, 2 went to Oxbridge, and 1 is at St. Andrews. The 4th is in sixth form. The US college tuition & student debt is insanely high and I doubt they’d have had the same opportunity there as they do here.

That's been my experience too (Minnesota).

I'm sure there are very good schools in SF just like there are here. But I'm afraid guns would make the choice for me. I'd be terrified every time I waved them goodbye in the morning.

I would avoid the states who don’t respect a women’s right to made decisions about her body and those historically Trump areas with an obsession over the right to bear arms.

@Onnabugeisha

Your comment stating as fact the notion that the average American student doesn't get as good an education is bullshit.

Trying to bring oxbridge into the argument is a mistake on your part because obviously not everyone in the UK has a shot at Oxbridge. Not everyone in the US can reasonably expect to get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, U Chicago, Stanford, etc. either. But clearly a great many American teens do get admitted to highly selective universities, and there are state universities in the US which outrank universities elsewhere.

And on the subject of cost of university - there are approximately 66 liberal arts colleges, and universities, which offer to meet the full demonstrated financial need of students (tuition plus room and board plus a stipend for books/materials/travel). If your family earns less than $150k annually, you will qualify for some financial aid. Very few students pay the full whack. Public universities also offer significant means tested financial aid and non means tested scholarships.

Yep.
www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/more-heartbeat-abortion-bans-advancing-in-south-midwest

@Onnabugeisha - exactly - wouldn’t want to live there myself and more importantly wouldn’t want my DC’s to.