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Original poster

Schools giving blanket "NO" to time off during term

60 replies

twelveyeargap · 31/01/2008 10:05

DD1s secondary school has sent a letter home with every student to say that they were not permitted to authorise any time off during term time. They gave a link to the LEA/ council website for info on what punishments parents could expect for taking their children out of school for holidays. Funnily enough, the council website also stated that it was "up to the head teacher" whether a student was allowed to take up to 10 days of any school year off.

We also received a letter like this when DD1 was in primary school.

I am hugely frustrated now, because Australian relatives, last year booked their wedding for just after this Easter, in order that their family in England (some of whom are teachers) can come in the holidays. Lo and behold, our LEA have decreed that the Easter holidays won't be at Easter, they'll be two weeks later. We'd already accepted the wedding invitation and planned the trip before the holidays were announced and since DD is only in Year 8 and not doing exams or anything, I don't see why this isn't an exceptional circumstance.

However, I don't feel like I would be given a fair hearing by the head, given the wording of her letter and now we're considering phoning and saying she's got glandular fever or some other illness that might take her out for a couple of weeks.

We've since heard from DD that "so and so has been out sick for the last two weeks" and that "her sister is out too".

Is it just me, or does it seem that the school want parents to have to lie about where their kids are? Presumably since "illness" doesn't show up on the league tables, but authorised and unauthorised absences do?

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
ConnorTraceptive · 31/01/2008 10:11

TBH honest I think the schools are being ridiculous about this. Nothing will happen to you if you take your kids out for a holiday. As it's only a one off.

A child's attendance has to fall below 80% before an Education Welfare Officer can do much about it and even then they don't come round and cart you straight off to prison!

I would just take your kids and write to the school and explain honestly what the absence is for and that you appreciate they won't authorise it but you're going anyway.

It makes there figures look worse if they put it down as an unauthorised absence so they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Slouchy · 31/01/2008 10:12

All absence shows on league tables. Schools usually have to aim for 95% attendace or higher and it up to them whether they choose to allow hols. But hols are avoidable absence in a way that illness is not. Obviously, they can't argue with sickness, even if they are suspicious (eventually ESW gets involved and court action can begin).

Sympathy r.e. your situ. And I agree that if you've asked and been turned down, it will look bad if your dd suddenly 'gets ill'.

CountessDracula · 31/01/2008 10:15

Be careful our head said that if you are absent without authorisation for 2 weeks they can revoke your place at the school

I agree this is ridiculous. But there is nothing they can do as long as you ensure it is 9 days or less (so the head told me)

McDreamy · 31/01/2008 10:15

I agree with Connor. I would not lie, I would take them anyway. Family celebrations are very important and if exams etc are not going to be affected by your absence then it is more important that you go. If they won't authorise you absence then it looks worse for them.

Slouchy · 31/01/2008 10:15

CoonorT is right, BTW. If they do call it unauthorised absence, they may very well authorise it eventually for their figures anyway - it looks better to have hols in their figures than truancy (which is what unauth absence means to Ofsted).

I used to be responsible for chasing absence letters in a school - we always authorised eventually if we knew the child was away with parent's permission (unless we were involving ESW)

ConnorTraceptive · 31/01/2008 10:16

It's just one more target schools have to try to meet and what happens is that to compensate for the really poor attenders who are the real problem and bring the figures down they are targetting the more conscientious parents who worry about taking to much time off.

So by trying to get parents not to take kids on holiday in term time schools can improve their figures whilst failing to tackle the real problem attenders who are dragging down their numbers.

hanaflower · 31/01/2008 10:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ConnorTraceptive · 31/01/2008 10:20

Much easier to improve hundreds of 95 percenters by 1 or 2% than it is to bring up the percentage of a child with 50% attendance who has huge issues and is in a long drawn out, inneficient process with the EWO

Original poster
twelveyeargap · 31/01/2008 10:22

Part of me wants to make a stand and be honest. After all, it's a bad example to set your kids, to take "sickies".

However, I tried this before at the primary school and was met with a brick wall.

Actually, when I was up front and honest before, it was to fit in with the "outside London" half term, so we could travel with a teacher friend. After writing a very polite letter to both head and class teacher, they didn't even bother to reply directly to me. They sent a letter home with every child saying they weren't authorising any holidays. It was so rude. We didn't go on that holiday.

When it came to something unavoidable the following year (wedding abroad again), I just phoned the day we left and said "DD won't be in for a week. We're going to a wedding abroad."

They sent a snotty letter to our house, saying we should have "requested authorisation", but what was the farking point, if they don't even reply to the requests? Made me so .

OP posts:
ConnorTraceptive · 31/01/2008 10:22

Also when schools have to give in their final attendance figures for the year they only have to do so up until the end of may.

Why? because so many people go on holiday in summer term. They know this and it is accounted for. It's all a load of bull.

Original poster
twelveyeargap · 31/01/2008 10:23

Countess Dracula, thanks. It happens that the two weeks we need include Easter Monday, so it will actually be 9 days off, not 10, we avoid that threat of taking her off the register.

OP posts:
bunnyhunny · 31/01/2008 10:27

In our lea they will (allegedly) issue you with a fixed penalty notice if your child has 2 weeks unauthorised absence. But I think you don't get an actual fine unless it is repeated that year.

How ridiculous is that? I am a teacher and agree that a family holiday is so much more worthwhile than 2 weeks in school. If they are really concerned, they can set work for them to do in the meantime.

I really don't see the point of blanket refusal of family holidays!!

McDreamy · 31/01/2008 10:34

Oohh this thread is making me so with all your experiences!! I'm new to this school business (DD started FS2 in September) and I'm really beginning to get narked with all the rues and regulations!!

What we can and can't feed them, what holidays and celebrations we can and can't go to.

It's like we hand them over to the Education Authority at 5 years old, our decision making for what is best for our children is no longer required thank you very much

My brother is getting married in September in the UK (we live in Cyprus) and I have also been told that I will not be given permission to take her!!!!!! I feel like saying "you're missing my point, I am not requesting the time off I am telling you she will not be in school that week" (We have since found out that we will be living in the UK by then so it won't be an issue)

TheFallenMadonna · 31/01/2008 10:40

Difficult. DS's school was just OFSTEDed and the biggest criticism was 'average' attendance, mostly down to term-time holidays. So although I can't see that the odd week is going to wreck a child's education, I can also see why schools are getting tough.

bunnyhunny · 31/01/2008 10:48

the school should be glad that that was the biggest criticism! not the teaching, learning or achievement, but attendance!!

sorry, I think it's ridiculous that a measure the government has brought in (along with all their bright ideas affecting education - we get a new 'initiative' at least every half term) affects families in this way, and is included as a thing to improve on the ofsted report.

fgs, going away as a family v learning crap in school for 2 weeks. its a no-brainer for me.

and I thought this government was meant to be promoting families!

can you tell I am pre-menstrual?

Original poster
twelveyeargap · 31/01/2008 10:53

Well, you're all making me feel very strong-willed about this.

DH is adamant we lie and say she's sick, but I feel very uncomfortable about it. I don't want to be setting reminders for myself to phone home at the appropriate time and pretend we're still in the UK.

Will do some research and compose a letter to the head, I think.

OP posts:
bunnyhunny · 31/01/2008 10:54

dont lie and say she is sick - that would annoy me more than a kid going out for a holiday, personally.

TheFallenMadonna · 31/01/2008 10:55

I think they are glad (and relieved). But as you say, it's still in their Action Plan, and if they don't start to address it, they will be heavily criticised come the next inspection.

And, given that the rest of the report was pretty glowing, the "learning crap for two weeks" argument might not swing it with them .

I don't think it's schools being ridiculous. In amny areas they live or die by league tables and inspection reports.

bunnyhunny · 31/01/2008 10:57

no, it's not the schools fault at all, its pressure from above.

I think the 'learning crap for 2 weeks' should be included in your letter to the head twelveyeargap .

Dropdeadfred · 31/01/2008 11:01

If you lie it eans your child will have to NEVER talk about the two exciting weeks in Australia at school...methinks that would be very difficult to manage...

nooka · 31/01/2008 11:04

I think that you should write explaining that you will be taking the children away, apologising for any inconvenience and explaining about Easter (what weirdness is that anyway?). Don't ask for permission and do 't lie, just don't give them the opportunity to say no. It is disruptive to classes to have children coming and going all the time, but hey life happens!

TheFallenMadonna · 31/01/2008 11:07

And don't ask the teachers to provide special work so your child doesn't fall behind. That really makes them cross. Borrow a friend's book when you get back.

MrsGuitar · 31/01/2008 11:12

I have not entered into this world as yet - eldest is 2.8. This is really winding me up. I would have every intention of taking my boys out of school for a short break, as this fits in with mine and dh's work. I also have every intention of ensuring my boys get a good education with lots of help and support from home. Education does not soley occur with 20/30 other children and 1 teacher in a classroom.

HeadHeartorHormones · 31/01/2008 11:12

The 'illness plan' is too much of a risk imo. The teachers would know and it would be so embarassing if they took offence and decided to get difficult about it. Can you imagine being called before the headmaster to show him your tippexed passport?! I do sympathise though - whose child is it after all?

I think the Easter holiday/spring half term being seperate this year will catch a lot of people out. A carefully drafted letter showing how your best intentions and regard for education have been scuppered by the change of holiday may be the way forward. I suppose it needs to be worded in such a way that you are politely and reasonably asking for authorised absense (not permission) because the trip is already a fait accompli (spelling???). Get someone else to check its tone before you send it! Good luck (nervous on your behalf).

Twiglett · 31/01/2008 11:16

you write to them and tell them when she's taking the time off

they write back and say unauthorised

you go

school has to mark it down on their attendance

you get no comeback