Would you go private or state in this situation?

[EducationDilemma]

Hi so I've NC as there's a lot of identifying details in this, but I'm a regular poster.

My son is 3 with a speech delay and applications for primary for his year group open on Tuesday. We are in Dacorum (Herts) on the border with Buckinghamshire.

We are currently waiting for our house abroad to sell and stuck renting. Due to house prices here we will almost certainly be moving to Aylesbury unless things really come down over the coming year.

We viewed a private school we really loved in Watford and we thought we could probably stretch to it if I go back to work (which will be more doable with an 8-6 school day than a 9-3). It's not just the tiny class sizes, it's the extracurricular activities, the range of subjects available when he reaches prep, the music and sports available and the fact they have a track record with my son's SEN.

BUT it will be a real stretch for money, we would probably have to buy a 2 bed instead of a 3 bed house, and we won't be able to afford to send our other child to private.

And we're right next to an outstanding state primary (but no guarantee we'll get in) but oversubscribed so the classes will definitely be full. It's also non-religious which I don't like as we're Christian.

There is also a nearby C of E village school who only took 8 in September for Reception but it's over the county border so no guarantee we'll get in here either, however if we do, he'll be on the right side of the border for support with the 11+ and to keep his friends when he goes to secondary etc so we won't need to change his school after we move.

Would you just assume you'd get into the nearest primary and that, because it's outstanding, your child would be fine here? Or would you send out of area to the village school for smaller class sizes (but it's not outstanding)? Or would you go for the private to give him the best start and then look at state when he's older if he's caught up, knowing you'll probably have to move schools due to the length of daily commute when we finally buy a house.

Our other option is to defer and keep him in nursery for another year but I don't see the need if we can get him into school in reception.

I'm so lost on what to do here, I keep going round and round with it all.

I don't think you can decide at the ages of your DC (presuming the other is younger?) that the oldest definitely needs a private school because of his SEN, but the younger one will be fine.

I think you need to start in state and possibly consider more specialist options later if they are needed.

To pick up on some of the points in your post

1. Ofsted is not the be all and end all. Particularly if the last inspection was some time ago. You need to visit schools and decide for yourself.
2. All schools have to include a religious element
3. You need to check admissions criteria to understand your chances of getting into primary schools. If you are "right next" to a school you are generally pretty certain to get in.
4. What's your option if he doesn't pass the 11+ (maybe too far away to worry about now)
5. You don't mention SEN support in the state schools. Worth finding out
6. 8 in a year group means the school will be teaching in mixed age group classes. Not that class sizes will necessarily be smaller.

Yes independent (private) schools have some advantages like extracurricular activities, better facilities, small class sizes and so on but… I would never send one of my child to private if I can not afford to send my other child to private school.
So in your case I start with state primary and save money for the secondary for BOTH of your children.

IME working in education, outstanding schools are often appalling for SEND and whilst they can't actually refuse them, they tend to say things like 'we can't meet their needs' whilst recommending another school. This is to preserve their amazing SATs results. I'm generalising of course.

SEND provision varies massively I'm sad to say.

My advice would be to have a very detailed discussion with the SENDCO at all possible schools and find out how they support children with SEND, what interventions they can provide, and ask for evidence of success with current children (they won't name names but they can give an idea of trends, data comparisons etc). Also ask about support staff and how experienced they are, and the experience of the SENDCO too for that matter.

Ask for a year group breakdown of numbers on the SEND register, a school that's good for SEND you'd expect to see fewer children on it the older they get. However this is less useful in small schools.

Also ask around including local Facebook groups.

Good luck.

Thanks @sheepdogdelight these are some great points to consider. I am concerned at the dated Ofsted info but have nothing else to go on as I've been chasing two of these schools for visits for weeks and they don't answer the phone.

I don't know if DS will get anywhere with the 11+ - that was one big reason we were considering private actually, because the secondaries around Aylesbury used to be abysmal (and still oversubscribed), but my knowledge is 20 years out of date as I've been abroad for a long time.

With DS's SEN, we have been told that the earliest we can get good intervention, good teaching etc, the better his outcomes will be, and his nursery are concerned he will be "lost" in our nearest school due to class size.

I did want to ask the village school about mixed year groups. I had the same SEN as DS and I really benefitted from a village school and being in the same class as the year below me as that's where I made friends, but by the same token, it did make the transition to secondary hard.

IDK if my other child will have SEN but we 'knew' there was something amiss with DS's development from about 7 months old so I'm not currently concerned about DC2.

Thank you @ArtyPharty that's really helpful questions to ask. I have the same concern about the outstanding school but everyone around here just says it's the best school in the town but IDK what info they are basing that on.

@dancelov3r Yes this is part of the issue, I don't want favouritism, but DH works in an all-girls school and gets a huge fee discount so we're more likely to be able to afford to send DD from the age when that school starts, and I thought is it that unfair if it's just for a few extra years?

If you’ve been chasing for weeks and no one has rung you back I’d be taking those two off the list immediately!

@Umbellifer thanks yeah that's my gut feeling but I'm trying to give them a fair chance. I've left a couple of voice messages for the one with an answering machine and tried different times of day though.

Can you definitely afford the private school all the way through, including fee rises? You say that it will be a stretch, and mean buying a smaller house? My understanding is that fees can increase as you go up the school, and at the moment you should probably be budgeting for a 10% increase in fees year on year.

Apart from having a smaller house, would paying for private school fees disadvantage your other child in any way?

Would it be worse for your son if he started at the private school, and had to move schools as it became unaffordable, or do you think a few years of early intervention would still help?

I wouldn't necessarily worry about the small school not being outstanding- the ofsted framework often doesn't suit very small schools IME. I know you've said they haven't been answering the phone, but do they run an open evening or similar so you can visit?

Alternatively, depending on when your son's birthday is, have you thought about deferring for a year, and then you could hopefully find a place after you moved?

I had something similar @EducationDilemma , and it made me think if they don’t respond to a fairly simple question what are they going to be like if there is a problem I need to discuss with them - it really put me off and the DC went elsewhere. Go with your gut !

Don’t do it if it’s a stretch. I have occasionally had to lend my sister money for her children’s school fees (it wasn’t a stretch when they started school but things changed) and it gives you very complicated feelings about your child and their education. It’s also tough when they don’t do well and it seems hard to avoid feeling resentful of the cost when the kids are failing.

I live in that area and I can't work out which prep school you're referring to from the description!

I agree with don’t do it if it’s a stretch and if you can’t for both. Save the money for private SALT and extra curriculars.

Private schools are often not great for SEN - yes this school has experience with his SEN but that doesn’t necessarily mean they did a great job.

Also if he has speech delay then a 9-3 day and then 1:1 with you at home is going to be a lot easier for him, and more beneficial, than 8-6 at school. even if you go back to work, the money saved on school fees would pay for a good after school nanny so again 1:1 (well 1:2 as you have another DC).

When is his birthday, if it’s later in the school year I would definitely see if you can defer and start him in Reception a year later.

I agree with mini pie. The private school won't be able to offer the 1:1 you can give him at home. If you stretch yourself then you will be able to spend less time with your dc, firstly as you will have to work fulltime. Secondly because you won't be able to pay for eg cleaner, gardener etc to free up time to spend with dc.
A 2 bed home isn't ideal as you will have to move again as I can't see they will want to share as teens. It will be hard to move later on as you will have been spending your spare cash on fees.
Don't worry about the non-religious school. If you are religious yourself, you & your church will be able to provide enough input. You don't need a school to provide that role.
Little country schools can be a mixed bag. My dn is in a small country class full if sen kids from the nearby town as I think everyone had the same idea as you. They are often taught in mixed age groups as well which has it's own challenges.
If I were you I would pick the local outstanding state school, relax and enjoy your DC in a bigger home.

I'd echo a PP - the cost seems affordable at reception stage but the fees only increase through the school - check what the fees are currently for year 3 and up and then add 5-10% to those at least and check that is affordable. Also factor in additional costs such as longer school holidays = more difficult/expensive childcare.

I know the area and also not sure which prep school you're referring to. SEN provision is v individual to a particular school and some private schools are v genuinely supportive of children with SEN, others are not.

One benefit of private over state I have found (having experienced both) is that at private schools typically the teachers have more time and will engage with parents' concerns and you get a lot more interaction with the teachers/feedback etc. That can be helpful where there are specific concerns.

If you're planning on moving imminently then think about distances to travel to school etc as well.

If the professional advice you've received is that your DC would benefit most from early intervention you could aim for the private school for reception - year 2 and see how it goes, you will also then know where you are living etc for other schools.

If you're looking at Bucks 11+ in due course then you need to check the catchment areas carefully as if you live in Herts (even if DC go to school in Bucks) then v few of the grammars will be possible for you, Aylesbury tends to have a wide catchment so may be possible, Chesham used to take over the border into Herts but hasn't in recent years.

Have you thought about looking in Tring?

For example, Grove Road Primary has great SEN support and is very nurturing but good academically. Tring Secondary School is a Christian school with a fab reputation and some very lovely brand new buildings. Location means that those children who pass the Bucks 11+ usually get out of catchment places at the Aylesbury Grammar schools - although this is never a given.

House prices cheaper as the train station is a bit out of town.

Also, no state school prepares for the 11+. In fact, Bucks primaries are banned from doing so. My family experience has also shown that the SEN provision in a well run state school was far better than in the private sector.

Plus, it’s much easier to move from state to private in the early years than the other way round. You could always do state till eight?

Why? They have current pupils to teach and a school to run. They don't have loads of spare time to be ringing prospective parents back. They do however have websites, ousted reports etc online that can be looked at.

If it’s that much of a squeeze don’t do it, plus do not send one child only. DH was sent to a famous public school because he was exceptionally clever and his parents saw it as in investment. They did not send his sister. They had a holiday home and liked to also go off abroad, this is the 1970’s when going overseas was much rarer, they also had a full time housekeeper. Their DD was not worth the investment in their eyes.

DS sister is a deeply unpleasant person. I think she is angry at the opportunity afforded to him and not her. Unfortunately her upset manifests itself as bitterness. This bitterness has poisoned her whole life.

You would be better to put your child into state and invest funds in private support for their issues.

Well that’s just silly - it might be that one child desperately needs smaller classes and the other doesn’t. Are you going to deny what one needs just on the off chance the other might (but equally might not) have a bit of resentment.

OP, you have two kids so you have to prioritise moving near good state schools.

It’s too early to know if your son world particularly benefit from private education. So up your working hours and save up in case he does, but don’t jump this early.

When I moved here SW I knew the area well - two outstanding schools 6 in the middle and 2 failed a recent ofsted. But I knew the area and I knew local teachers. The nearest primary to us was outstanding I phoned them and they were so unbelievably up their own arses - spoke to the deputy head and then the head that I did a double take.
the other outstanding school in contrast was kind welcoming and full of love and empathy.
both had spaces by sheer chance (someone had moved the day before type thing) and I jumped at the chance to send him to the second school.

He has a full EHCP and they have fought for SALT etc

in your case - does he have an EHCP? As they will have to admit him to whichever school you nominate

Be very careful about super small primaries - they just don’t have the resources for much at all, let alone SEN provision. Staff may also lack the experience in dealing with issues because they won’t see as much in a small school. Budgets in schools are shocking, but as schools are funded per pupil, it’s acutely problematic in small schools. You might also get a lovely, family like school, or you could get a cliquey mess that’s full of families who’ve been in the village since the Doomsday book and don’t tolerate outsiders.

Has your child had any assessments?

A bedroom each would be a better investment for the general health and well being of both children.

My brother went to private school, me and my sister weren't. It has caused a lot of resentment. In my view having been in that situation if you can't afford them all you don't send them.