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Original poster

Order of schools - thinking appeals already

36 replies

LalaDipsey · 30/10/2022 15:40

Hi - advice please.
I know it doesn't matter which order you put schools in for the application process (secondary) and what will be, will be.
However, does it matter which order you put them in when it comes to appeal? We know the likelihood is we will get school 3 and will want to appeal to get into the other two schools (both heavily oversubscribed).
I think there is slightly more chance of getting in on appeal at our second favourite so should we put that first?
I have heard that there is 'no way' the headteacher of our favourite school would let anyone in on appeal unless they have put it first - but equally I have never heard of anyone getting in there on appeal.
Our second favourite school we think we have a chance of winning on appeal - so should we put that first??!

Any help welcome Flowers thank you

OP posts:
SpookabooAtTheZoo · 30/10/2022 16:34

On what grounds are you appealing them? Your first choice sounds really inflexible, but how much is there between your choices? For example, were you having trouble picking between schools 1 and 2, or 2 and 3? I'd say that should guide how you approach this.

If you think school 2 is almost as good as school 1, put school 2 for your appeal if there's a better chance of success. If you think school 2 is almost as bad as school 3, put school 1 as it's a big improvement on your circumstances.

But fingers crossed it doesn't get this far and that you get school 1 or 2!

JanglyBeads · 30/10/2022 16:36

It does matter because your choice 2 and 3 schools will only consider your application of choice 1 rejects you! Unless things have changed in the last few years?

sheepdogdelight · 30/10/2022 16:36

"What you've heard" is rubbish.

You should put the schools in your genuine order of preference.

The order you put them on your application form will not influence your changes at appeal. You can also appeal for schools you didn't put on the form at all.

JanglyBeads · 30/10/2022 16:37

*if choice 1 rejects you! (Well they might consider you but you won't know about it and will be offered the first choice if they accept you.)

Lougle · 30/10/2022 17:08

You need to use your genuine preferences in order. They will first assess if school 1 can take you, then 2, then 3. If you put your first preference school 3rd, you'd only get it if the first two schools couldn't take your child.

The appeal system is completely separate. You can appeal any school you want to. Your application preference has no bearing on your likelihood of winning.

StrictlyJowita · 30/10/2022 17:15

You need to stop listening to whoever is telling you all that bollocks.

Put the schools on the application form in the order you want them.Confused

If you have to appeal you need to understand the process properly, not listen to rumours about how it works. Or you've got no chance!

If I were you I'd apply for a school you have a hope of getting in to though.

cc1997 · 30/10/2022 17:34

What's the reason for appeal when you haven't even had the place allocated for any yet? I'm confused.

JanglyBeads · 30/10/2022 17:50

The OP is assuming she won't get in to any of her top three schools

LIZS · 30/10/2022 17:52

HT won't know what preference you placed them and cannot usually influence appeals.

StrictlyJowita · 30/10/2022 18:42

cc1997 · 30/10/2022 17:34

What's the reason for appeal when you haven't even had the place allocated for any yet? I'm confused.

Why are you confused? You can know why a school would be a better fit for your child before you don't get in.

SpookabooAtTheZoo · 30/10/2022 19:07

@StrictlyJowita yes but is "I think this school is better" a convincing grounds for appeal? I thought you had to have a compelling reason within a list of "grounds for appeal" e.g. it meets a religious or SEN need, which is why I asked this upthread as well. Otherwise it would be an absolutely chaotic timewasting mess in the council offices every year and the most argumentative would get the best places and no one else would get anything.

LIZS · 30/10/2022 19:28

Appeals at secondary can be about more than meeting the admissions criteria, such as a specific area of interest catered for. Majority are happy with their allocated school so no real chaos afterwards.

PinkFrogss · 30/10/2022 19:33

Appeals are completely separate from schools, the HT cannot allow or disallow an appeal. The only input from the school is that they are allowed to present their case as to why they cannot accept another pupil. The panel make the decision and that is that. You can even appeal for a school you didn’t apply for.

If you don’t get offered the school you want you should make another post at the time for advice, there are some great appeals experts on the secondary education board Smile

cc1997 · 30/10/2022 20:16

StrictlyJowita · 30/10/2022 18:42

Why are you confused? You can know why a school would be a better fit for your child before you don't get in.

Show quote history

Yes, but they've not not got in yet and "a better fit" isn't grounds for an appeal.

PinkFrogss · 30/10/2022 20:23

cc1997 · 30/10/2022 20:16

Yes, but they've not not got in yet and "a better fit" isn't grounds for an appeal.

Show quote history

It can be, it just depends on the reasons why that school is a better fit - subjects offered, extra curriculars available, etc can all form part of an appeal.

StrictlyJowita · 30/10/2022 21:11

I know exactly what grounds for appeal are as I've won one and before I did I made sure that I understood the system completely. I could write a book on it now, or at least a detailed pamphlet.

"A better fit" is grounds for appeal, particularly at secondary although obviously you would have to say a lot more than that.

My point was that you could absolutely make the decision that you were going to appeal for a school before you found out that your child hadn't got a place.

QuillBill · 30/10/2022 21:12

Yes, but they've not not got in yet and "a better fit" isn't grounds for an appeal.

It doesn't sound as if you know what you are talking about to me. You were right when you said you were confused though.

cc1997 · 30/10/2022 21:23

QuillBill · 30/10/2022 21:12

Yes, but they've not not got in yet and "a better fit" isn't grounds for an appeal.

It doesn't sound as if you know what you are talking about to me. You were right when you said you were confused though.

A better fit with no further explanation is not a ground for appeals.

QuillBill · 30/10/2022 21:29

A better fit with no further explanation is not a ground for appeals.

Nobody said it was.

You said a school being a better fit wasn't grounds for appeal. We all know that you would need to say why. The OP hasn't said she was just going to put 'better fit'.

cc1997 · 30/10/2022 21:34

Oh lord, I asked for more information on my first post. Leaving this thread, bloody hell.

Original poster
LalaDipsey · 31/10/2022 09:49

Hello - thanks for your replies. I didn't want to bore you with the details!

Our closest school has a reputation for bullying and the extra curricular doesn't offer what my son is interested in. I also did work experience there and wasn't impressed by what I saw behind the scenes. We are not putting it down but may get it.
.

My eldest daughter goes to an all girls (state) school. There is an all boys school my son likes as school 2. This is the one I think we could win an appeal as his other sister will go there and there is an argument he is disadvantaged by not having single sex education when his sisters benefit from it. Very oversubscribed (12:1)

School number 1 choice is a smaller school, outstanding Ofsted, he knows children who go there. Smaller size benefits him as he is emotional - but not enough to make an appeal over. Only gravitas behind our appeal is that I think it's the right school for him based on their behaviour expectations, wrap around care, pastoral support, extra curricular, smaller size. But I don't know anyone who has ever won an appeal to go there. Oversubscribed approx 10:1.

Therefore am tempted to put our second choice as first choice as I think we have a better case for appeal - we would be extremely happy if he got that school - but we would be thrilled if he got the first choice.

First choice is also logistically much easier. Second and third choices are logistically a nightmare!

OP posts:
Original poster
LalaDipsey · 31/10/2022 09:50

Our third choice we don't particularly like and is logistically tricky - but we prefer it to the closest school.

OP posts:
LIZS · 31/10/2022 10:08

It does not matter what order you place them in now, if you decide to go to appeal. It needs to be the genuine preference order so that you potentially get offered a place at one you prefer over another.

JanglyBeads · 31/10/2022 11:16

Yes, now you've given us more explanation for your thinking we spot the error - thinking that any appeal takes into account what preference you gave the school in question initially. It doesn't.

thing47 · 31/10/2022 11:22

OP, you're not going to win an appeal based on single sex v mixed sex schooling.

There isn't an argument that he is going to be disadvantaged by not going to single sex because the data shows that boys benefit more from mixed sex schooling; it's only girls who benefit from single sex.

Most of the other elements you mention – size, behaviour expectations, wrap around care – aren't going to help at an appeal either. Extra curricular would only be relevant if your DS is exceptional at something like music or sport and you can prove only School 1 would be able to offer this at a sufficiently high level.

As you're also not aware of anyone winning an appeal to go there, I think you should probably cross this one off your list tbh.