It's hard not to take it personally when...

[duchesse]

...all three of your (bright enough) children are rejected by the only state grammar in the area.

The two oldest have instead gone to fee-paying highly selective schools where they are doing very well. The third sailed into an even more selective girls' school.

So what is wrong with my children that the grammar school won't have them?

Am puzzled and upset.

Nothing. Undoubtedly the state grammar has many, many more people trying to get in because it's free. Put it this way:

People trying to get their kids into selective state schools = everyone in the area with a bright child, that's the rich (trying their luck before they start raiding their savings accounts) and the poor (only hope)

People trying to get their kids into a private selective school = those with bright kids who can afford it.

rich in our case= willing to borrow money to make it happen.

But I do take your point.

was it part interview or just on 11plus?

Both were effectively exam only, although the girls' school had them all day, and therefore had ample opportunity to spot any undesirable behaviour...

duchesse: "So what is wrong with my children that the grammar school won't have them?"

They just aren't bright enough - or didn't do well enough in the exams. But that's not something wrong with them, it's just how they are. If their hair colour, or height wasn't quite what you wanted, would you say that was something wrong with them?

I suspect the latter rather than the former, Ubergeekian- if my daughter's other entrance test is anything to go. Various standardised tests (and yes I do take them with a pinch of salt) she's had over the last three years place her IQ above 139.

pressure on places, sheer number of applicants.unfortunately someone will be disapointed.

was it www.latymer.co.uk/admissions/policy.aspxlatymer

was it Latymer"?

duchesse isn't it the case that the high IQ children are being outperformed by tutored kids who all get 99% nowadays

The reality is that if a school is selective, some children will be picked and some will be rejected.

The downside of the grammar school system is that your children may not get in. I'm sure that they are bright, but if there are brighter children applying that you, they will get the places.

I thought entry to all the remaining grammar schools was on 11+ exam alone? If so, it's a very specific type of test and only 23% to 25% of children pass it. And in some areas, you don't just have to pass it, you have to pass it with practically full marks to get a place. So I wouldn't be downhearted about it - it's a bit of a lottery anyway!

It is very very competitive in some areas. I know it is virtually impossible to get into Watford girls/boys. It depends on the area. Not quite so hard in Buckingham as there are more places.

It's even worse than that around here. The grammar in question is the only one in Devon LEA (bar Torbay which is a separate authority). It is also very high in national league tables (top in fact) which certainly pulls in the crowds, and not just from Devon either.

duchesse: "Various standardised tests ... she's had over the last three years place her IQ above 139."

Just as a matter of interest, how does she come to have done several tests over the last three years?

That aside, though, ability at IQ tests doesn't really correspond to anything other than ability at IQ tests.

But please ... please ... there's nothing wrong with her, honest!

The 11+ tests a certain type of intelligence - mostly numerical and verbal reasoning - and the ability to do this under timed conditions. In the 11+ if they don't work like a automaton at speed or don't perform under pressure then it excludes plenty of capable students. Nor does it test those really good at English since the extended writing is only looked at when borderline. This is why some are coached intensively and why tbh you can get students who pass who then struggle.

Independent schools, I would hazard, look more at the whole child, employ different testing that may well include a IQ test, as well as weighing up your social profile and bank balance - a whole different set of criteria!

Did you do lots of prep/tutoring with them duchesse?

The problem is although the grammar may have, say, 'only' 540 applicants for 90 places. Those 540 applicants might actually represent 2000 or even 4000 members of the general populace who didn't even apply to the grammar. So the school is only taking the tiniest top percentage, based on performance in their particular test on the day.

It's not surprising it's top of the league tables - it should be if it's that selective.