Grammar school minority

[Lilyspher]

Hi there

I think we'll be in the minority here. My DS1 has just passed his 11+ and it would seem can get into the local grammar if he wishes. I should add that this pass came with a lot of blood, sweat and tears (both mine and his) and intenstive tutoring and I am wondering whether we (yet both of us) can keep it up for another 7 years when he is at secondary school hence my reticence at sending him to the grammar (just because you can doesn't mean you should say my other half). DS1 does not perform too well under pressure and there is a chance he is mildly autistic too.

There is an altenative as the local comprehensive has a grammar stream (which we - both us and him) decided would be a good middle ground.

We had decided on the grammar stream at the local comp but I am now having second thoughts - all the opportunities he would have at the grammar etc and if he started off at the grammar and really does not like it, he can swap to the comp (I believe it would be more difficult to swap the other way round).

He wants the local comp (although I am not sure if it is so because he thinks he'll have to work less hard) but I know I can talk him round. Should I or am I just being a snob and want the grammar school for its cache?

I hear you. I have a child in each camp. My grammar school child is highly intelligent but is a perfectionist and puts them self under an immense amount of pressure and now suffers from anxiety and struggles with mental health. They passed the 11+ with an outstanding score with very little prep (a few practise papers from CGP, no tutors, no tears). Their view of the world is slightly skewed in that they would deem a 90% test score an utter failure as peers got higher. They don’t see the wide diversity of ability that actually exists in society and academic achievement is paramount. It’s immensely competitive and stressful. They don’t enjoy school but likes most teachers very much and has some firm, good friends and for this reason has turned down offers of changing schools to the local comp. My other child is disabled, and is at the local comp. She also has good friends, reports the teachers are nice and I see daily the excellent support she gets. She loves school and has good mental health despite having an equivalent amount of homework, afterschool activities, early get-up times etc. The difference I perceive is the local comp is focussing on learning whereas the grammar is focussed on results. It’s a tough choice, having passed the 11+ you could always try one school and move schools if it doesn’t work out. My grammar school child reports kids moving in and out of their year each term to swap schools. I think this is probably ok for KS3 but then go firm with a school choice to provide stability in KS4 for the GCSE years. However, it may be hard to integrate into a new friendship group if you swap schools which is another consideration. Good luck OP. Best wishes to your DS for secondary and well done on passing the 11+. Passing means he has a choice; not that he must attend grammar. Every child is unique and different schools suit different children.

Your OP seems all about the type of school and not about the schools themselves. It sounds like you have two good options - so which school do you like best when you consider the criteria that are important to you?

I wonder if you’re second-guessing his ability too much - working hard for the 11 plus does not equate to having to work just as hard for the next 7 years. Kids are working towards the same exams at both schools. Yes some grammars are more pressured (seems often more from the kids and parents than the schools) but what about your grammar school? But it’s equally fine to say, we prefer the comp.

It sounds like you think the grammar stream is second best (good middle ground sounds like a compromise). Why? You don't have to tell us, but I think your view on this is critical to the choice you make.

For me it sounds like the best of both worlds. Having teachers who are used to teaching a range of ability is ideal for my academically able autistic child, and it's essential for his mental health to have him somewhere where pressure can be released if needed. But of course others pick grammar if they possibly can, and it does depend on the other differences between the schools.

Hello

I have heard good and bad about both schools. For the grammar, the pastoral care is not suppose to be all that good and I have heard some of the children have mental health issues that are not dealt with property at the school (I am currently awaiting a call from the pastoral team). As for good, the children get lots of opportunties, are able to mix with the "right" crowd and of course there is potential for higher grades.

As for the comp, if DS1 is in the grammar stream, I guess he will mix in the "right crowd" but have a more rounded education and mixture of people as the core subjects are done by the grammar stream and the other subjects such as pe, woodwork and the like are with the general school population.

I'm just worried if he makes the wrong choice with the comp, he'll find it difficult to go back whereas if he got into the grammar, he can easily get into the comp if he doesn't like it.

From what you describe, I would say the grammar stream at the comp sounds ideal, particularly if your DS has potential autism and the 11+ was so hard to get through. Good pastoral care is vital. My DCs are/were at (separate) boys and girls grammar schools. One has fantastic pastoral care, is extremely understanding of DC3s autism and makes all sorts of allowances and adjustments. At the other, there is no chance DC3 would have coped at all and I know other parents who have had huge battles to get even basic support for diagnosed issues (dyslexia). I understand you not wanting to reject the grammar, but if you think their pastoral care is lacking and your DS might well need support, I would definitely go for the one with good pastoral care. If in your case this is the comp with a grammar stream (we also have one of these in our town), that really does seem to be the best of both worlds.

Grammar schools can be miserable places for those children who just scrape in and even then after a huge amount of tutoring. Parents out so much pressure to get their children into “the best” school that actually they don’t stop and think if it’s “the right” school.

The pace of learning at grammars is fast and intense and if your child struggles with this then I would definitely choose the grammar stream at the comp option. I have known a child who was placed in a grammar stream based on their 11+ result actually be moved out of it in Y8 as they just weren’t coping. At a grammar there’s nowhere really to go - it’s sink or swim or a life belt of continued tutoring.

Also, don’t underestimate the impact having to move from a grammar to a comp could affect them mentally. They are being moved because they aren’t good enough. That’s worse than not going there in the first place IMO.

Go with what DS wants especially if he has close friends going to one. He’ll do best at the school he’s happy at.

Something else to throw into the mix, at my son’s grammar they have a way above average number of boys with ASD and are well set up to support them. Worth checking.

If your son needed very intensive tutoring to get in the grammar school and you don't want to continue that for the next 6 years then please do not send him to a grammar school. I used to work in a grammar and it used to break my heart with the students struggling as all tutoring had stopped and they were consistently bottom of the class. They will be in the top 5-10% of intelligence for their age and they work at a lot faster pace than a comprehensive, if he struggles without a tutor it will be hell for him.

My daughter went into a comp with 20% 11+ intake after failing second stage 11+. It's been great for her. She is comfortably top of most classes. Predicted all 8's and 9's and identified as oxbridge potential. It's in no way held her back.

She needs to know she is doing well and I think she would have struggled at the grammar with the pressure.

Not sure that it's a standard thing, but my DD did two hours homework each night for seven years at her very selective grammar (more than 80% of kids considered smart enough to sit the 11+ didn't get a place).
More than a dozen GCSEs and 4 A-levels later, she's happy that she went, but declines invitations to visit.
If a child isn't stretched or doesn't enjoy the regime at the school that you choose, how would you react?

Some autistic people can be very perfectionistic and get unhappy if they don't do 'well'. Might he be happier at the top of the class at the comp rather than in the middle at the grammar?

A lot of other DC that passed the 11+ will also have had tutors - probably most of them - so he would probably be fine there.

we thought about grammar for my bright eldest but went with local comp as it had better mental health outcomes. Few years on I am thankful every day (as is she) as there have been some horror stories about her friends who went - it is all girls though which I think can have particularly bad outcomes for mental health.

Something you haven't mentioned yet is whether your son has any extra-curricular interests and how well each school caters for these. Is he musical, sporty, artisitic? And is there a difference in what clubs/teams the two schools run that might also make a difference and help you decide? My DCs all made friends through shared interests and these extra curricular activities were important. It might swing it one way or the other if you and your son are still struggling to decide?

So he hasn't been assessed for autism? You can't be 'mildly autistic'; that's not a thing. You can be autistic and doing well as your needs are met.

What are his needs? Secure within his peer group? Sport, art, music? Academic challenge? Has he expressed a preference for one school over the other? Are the journeys similar? Is the subject offer & extra curricular offer similar? Do students go on to similar destinations? What do the inspection reports say?

Just a warning - grammars do often have autistic DC but funding is so tight and classes are so large - there's not much support. At least that was my experience when I taught in one.

Comps deal with the whole range and staff encounter more SEN.