Disagreement with DS about secondary school choice

[itsunomanika]

Looking for advice about secondary school choice. In particular, how much did you let your DC have a say? We are lucky enough to have a lot of choice of Ofsted good schools in our area, and be in the (tiny) catchment area of a nationally recognised outstanding secondary. This school has a reputation for great results but also as a bit of a “hot house” exam factory type atmosphere. We’ve visited several open days.

Our DS is pretty academic (last year’s teacher put him in his top 3-5 of the class) but also a sensitive soul. He enjoyed the open days at the other local “good” rated schools as they gave him individual attention (this effort was not necessary at the oversubscribed outstanding school) and therefore had a more personal feel. However, 2 of these would require a bus ride and the 3rd is a 25 minute walk. The outstanding school is about a 10-15 minute walk. Also his possibly preferred school is all boys, which I’m not too keen on, having gone to a single sex school myself from 11-16.
As far as friendships go, DS has (rather coldly!) said he will make new friends. He’s in a close trio at school. One of these friends is planning to go to one of the good schools (his brother is there already, happy) and the other friend’s mum is torn between that one and the outstanding.

I’m keen to choose the outstanding school in part because if we “get it wrong” and DS wants to change schools it would be almost impossible to change INTO to the oversubscribed one at a later date, but easier to get him out of there and into one of the other local “goods”. Obviously it would be much less disruptive to get the choice right first time.

Several people have told me to go on gut instinct, but what if you disagree with your DC’s gut instinct? They are the ones who will attend the place every day. But they also lack a parent’s experience in weighing everything up.

People have also said not too worry too much, a DC like ours (motivated, supported at home etc) will do well anywhere. But of course it helps to have a school that will support this achievement.

Anyone had a similar dilemma? Any advice. Thanks in advance! I was expecting this to be so stressful!

It doesn't sound as if the Outstanding school is the right school for your son. The potential impact on his mental health is the key thing here if he is bright enough to do well at all the schools.

I would send him to the outstanding school and move him later if necessary.

I got a bit confused about who wants what, but I don't like the idea of a 'hot house exams factory'.

Your DC will make new friends and existing friendships should not be a factor in your decisions.

Usually I'd say a 10yo isn't mature enough to make the choice, but it seems to me you think all the schools are fine? If your DS prefers a less hot-house school and is prepared to travel then I'd let him choose it.

So does your DS want to go to one of the good school and not the outstanding one?

When was the Outstanding school last inspected? Unless recently it my well now be only 'good'.

You haven't really talked much about other aspects eg level of homework, extra curricular clubs, pickiness on uniform, behaviour policy etc.

What does your DS prefer about his chosen school? Is it sensible (eg they have more tech options, or they do Spanish, or they don't make so much fuss about uniform) or something like 'they were giving out cookies at the open evening'?

Ultimately, I don't think a 10yo should have the final choice unless there are two options you are equally happy with.

That said, a 'hot house exams factory' doesn't sound great!

I also think the question of when it was last inspected is relevant.

I let mine decide for themselves. Two of them went to a school where they didn't know a soul but soon made good friends.

First thing for both you and DS to understand is that no one gets a "choice" - the form you complete allows you to express a preference but there's no guarantees. So you start off from there and emphasise that DS shouldn't set his heart on any one school but should be open to any of them but should tell you positives and negatives from his point of view about each school.

Second thing is that a y6 has no idea what it's like to be a y10 so is not in possession of all the facts needed to assess what school will be best for the next 5 (or 7) years. So the final decision for what order to put the schools onto the form should rest with the parents, but taking the child's thoughts into account as far as possible.

We sent our DD to the outstanding academy. She ended up with SEMH. She wanted to go with her friends to the good/ requires improvement school in the village. I refused as her brother was at the other school. She ended up at the second choice at 15. I wish I had sent her there first. She achieved her GCSEs but not without huge heartache. Exam factories have no room for sen, poor mental health or colouring outside the box. Be careful. I wouldn't send a dog to this local outstanding hell hole.

I let my dc choose. I made sure they understood that it was an important decision, and that I trusted them to choose what was right for them. I'm glad I gave them this responsibility as it meant they were personally invested in the choice and attached to the school before they started.

Presumably though you felt happy that the available schools were suitable whichever they picked? No way would I abdicate that level of parental responsibility to a child of 10 unless their choice didn't really matter.

A sensitive soul and a school which hot houses for results doesn’t sound a good combination to me.

i would tread very carefully with the “well
we can just move” approach too because if damage is done by not being in the right setting for him then that could be very hard to undo.

i think his comments about friendship say a lot about his maturity, he is going off what feels right for him not just following friends. So based on that I would seriously consider taking his views into account

Take his views into account. Yes, they are young and they don’t fully understand everything needed from a school, but they are also the ones who will be going there for 5-7 years, it will help everyone if your DC feels like a big part of the process.

I have always let my kids make the final decision on secondary schools themselves. All your options seems fine, although I would not choose the outstanding exam hot house, just because very few kids genuinly thrive in that type of environment, and you will likely end up with a child with performance anxiety and very little life outside of school.

We've had a very similar dilemma with our DD. Ultimately we let her make the final choice, because I want her to start secondary on a positive note, not feeling like she's been "sent" somewhere she doesn't want to go.

Just to follow up, I should say we'd be happy with either of our two most likely choices, so whichever she chose we'd feel confident she'd get a good school, though for different reasons (one very academic, one much more creative). Of course we may not get either, but it's unlikely.

Don't choose a school on the basis of "we can move him if it doesn't work out". Moving schools is more complex than that.

Personally it sounds like the outstanding (when was that Ofsted, by the way?) school is riding on its reputation and may not be the right place for your son.

I think you're right to take travel into account but a short bus journey (if they are short) and a 25 minutes walk are not onerous enough to rule the schools out (I'd rule out longer bus journey schools).

In answer to your actual question, I'd take my chid's views into account, but I'd have the casting vote. Although I think it's interesting that DC would rather go to a school he likes without his friends - normally that's an important consideration for his age group!

This

First off outstanding schools are inspected so rarely now that the rating is meaningless. Its years between inspections and anything can happen in between.

A 25 min walk is nothing so I certainly wouldn't be put off by that. There will still be local friends.

Which one offers clubs etc that he will be in to?

Can you speak to any parents find out what they think ?

A hot house school doesn't suit everyone. Is the school particularly nurturing/supportive ? Whats the pastoral care like?

You sound very fortunate to be asked to access a selection of schools. If the bus journeys aren't that complicated then again don't rule the schools out.

Forget about the ofsted for a minute. Which one felt like it was most welcoming and has the most aspects that will benefit your son?

There's not a big difference between good and outstanding so I would disregard Ofsted. These ratings are about how the school performs according to Government guidelines, which don't necessarily reflect parents' greatest concerns. All of your choices are acceptable from an academic point of view. The journey would be a consideration - the 15 or 25 minute walk seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't take a single sex school (boys do less well in single sex schools) but a 10 year old boy won't see that. Open days are designed to sell the school and, while they give an idea of what the school's like, they really just show which school's better at staging open days. What subjects are offered? What sports are offered? What are the after school activities? What are detentions given for and how frequently?

You have to take his views into consideration but he needs to be clearer about why he's making his choice. A better experience at the open day wouldn't swing it for me. It would be really helpful if you could talk to older teenagers who know the schools.

I would definitely steer my DC away from a school that I felt was a poor school / unsuitable for him, but it sounds like you'd be reasonably happy with any of these schools (is that right?), so in that case I'd let DS choose.

If all the schools are good - which you say they are - then I would let son decide . If he has chosen it himself he's invested in it and will be keen to really make a go of it . If you choose and it doesn't work well it'll always be the one you chose . He sounds like an intelligent lad who will do well wherever he goes !

I would not let son decide because the decision is too much of a responsibility if it is wrong, and he does not have all the info. but I would take his views seriously, and also consider the situation as a whole.

don't look just at ofsted ratings, think about what school is going to be supportive and have good extra-curricular activities and a good choice of subjects at GCSE etc. The hot-house school is not necessarily the best in terms of mental health or grades.

my DC is very keen on design, and only one of the 3 schools available offered DT as a GCSE so she went for that one and is loving it.

Personally I wouldn't send a sensitive boy to an all boys school.

The problem is that if you make him go to the other school he might rebel and be unhappy. I think you need to find out more about the school he wants to go to. Is he an only child?

My main thought would be how would your ds handle the pressure of an exam focused hot house environment? Which you don’t mention. Because it’s not about whether he can academically handle it but more about mentally handling it?