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Original poster

So is anyone else reading this stuff about school admission lotteries...

151 replies

UnquietDad · 26/01/2008 16:24

...and thinking "if they try that on round here, there will be blood on the streets?"

Because I know I am.

Maybe some people like the idea...?

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 27/01/2008 18:59

Yes, sorry I didn't mean that but if you are not working but know you can get the child to a better school 10 miles away then you make the effort to take the buses to get there I suppose if you can afford it. The problem will be if you're allocated a dreadful school you hate and have to make the journey against your will rather than like us being put out by the transport because the advantages of the schools outweighed the transport distance and cost. (My twins' prep school is at the end of the road and after 13 years of getting other children to private schools all over the place it's so much easier)

I was just reading about a scientist in the US who set up a hedge fund. They employ 70 scientists just to do analysis etc.

My 4 year old was a very very confident little girl and no she was certainly not non verbal or blind. India Knight I think hopes the school will relent because of the special needs. It certainly must be hard to find appropriate schools for special needs children. If only 7 councils so far have ballots it perhaps is unlikely the balloting across the country will happen.

needmorecoffee · 27/01/2008 19:06

we did move to the US for a while cos they pay scientists a decent salary. But I got homesick and we came home when I was preg with the disabled one and thank god we did. No free healthcare in the US or welfare or housing benefit.
DH is a mathematician and works in artificial intelligence and data fusion for the defence industry. Even full time the pay is shite. When dd goes to school full time he will go back school hours only (so from 9 till 2.30 with 14 weeks unpaid a year for the holidays)
The fact that your 4 yo is not disabled and can speak means that a long journey for her is very very different than a long journey for a child like my dd. Yet we have no choice cos of the crap SN provision.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 27/01/2008 19:58

I don't think anyone would deny that SN provision is crap Nmc. It is, no doubt about it, no-one should have to travel that far for school. But if councils will have to pay for transport for able children travelling in excess of 3 miles despite the fact there are closer schools it's just going to make the financial situation even worse isn't it?

Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/01/2008 20:12

I travelled 12 miles to my grammar school as well. Some came equally far, but from places with better public transport, But not everybody was doing it, which was what made it manageable. I can't begin to imagine the chaos wrought by everyone getting out of their front doors at the same time and getting on different buses/ into cars and going in different directions across the city.

OP posts:
Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/01/2008 20:13

And people may say the environmental/traffic objection is being used as a front, but it;s never been the only one I've used. I've cited the undermining of communities, breaking up of friendship groups, and parents being forced to school their children in areas in which they have no stake.

OP posts:
evenhope · 27/01/2008 20:37

I don't think councils will have to pay for the transport. They only pay if the "nearest appropriate school" is more than 3 miles away, even if they won't let you go to the nearest appropriate school...

My mum's friend's DD didn't get into the local school she wanted and the council allocated her a school across the other side of the city. The poor child had to take 3 buses to get there. The LEA refused to pay for the travel because she lived less than 3 miles from the school they wouldn't let her go to.

The answer is that there shouldn't be sink schools. The school nearest to us (a High school- we have the 11+) had a dreadful reputation. It is served by a huge council estate and had very bad results. A new Head came in and it was taken over by the Church. Within a few years there was a waiting list. As the school took 50% of its intake from the neighbourhood the children from the council estate still got priority.

Sadly the Head retired a couple of years ago and the Deputy died soon after. The school has gone right downhill. Meanwhile the school that was the sink school on the other side of town has had a new Head and is now the desired school.

A school can very quickly go from being a highly desired one to the sink school. But the fact that the school improved so radically under the last Head- yet with the same intake- suggests that the LEA can do something to sort this out.

In our town the school that was the sink school

Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/01/2008 21:31

Still boggling at the head Peachy described who wants kids collected by parents (mothers, I'm reading between the lines) for whom work is a non-issue. I wonder how they'd react to me as a"flexible" dad who can collect 90% of the time.

And do schools/people like this really exist in the state sector in 2008??

OP posts:
Peachy · 27/01/2008 22:19

Sadly (!!!! why isn't there a sarcastic emoticon?) she retired at christmas, damned shame eh?

Actually Dh does a lot of pick ups too- as he works nights, probably about 90% (although usually together as we collect 3, one on reins) but then we've never been favourites!

angelstar · 28/01/2008 14:06

I don't understand the lottery for schools stuff at all, but surely they can't allocate a school that you didn't put on your application. So if you don't want to go to a school far away can you just not put that school on your application.

Its a bit confusing to me as I live in an area where children almost always just go to their catchment school.

policywonk · 28/01/2008 14:37

That's a good point angelstar (and answers a lot of the objections on this thread I think) - the lottery system only applies if you put an over-subscribed school on your application form. If you only apply for under-subscribed schools, or those that have about the same number of applications as places, the lottery doesn't kick in. That's how it's working in Brighton anyway.

Peachy · 28/01/2008 15:41

angelstar LEA's vary but back home you could certainly be allocated a school not on your list if all the ones you put were full.

angelstar · 28/01/2008 16:29

So then wouldn't lottery be in your favour. You then stand a chance at least of getting into one of the full schools.

Peachy · 28/01/2008 16:37

Well, I'm not specifically against so hard for me to answer- as I said back along, some doubts about issues of travel / siblings but if that could be resolved I like the idea.
Although if I were a non-driver allocated a rural school (given that abck home is Somerset) might feel differently i guess.

Blu · 28/01/2008 16:43

There is an over-subscribed well-thought of secondary very close to where I live, but applications come in from two boroughs away - and all over South London. Would people from long distances and in different LEAs be able to put this school down as one of thier chpices? And presumably many, many parents will only put preferred, high performing schools on thier lists.

I would put our local school down - and another 2 which atm we would not get into because of distance. So I would get an increased chance in the other two schools. BUT every other parent will do the same. So many will end up in schools not on thier list, and maybe miles away!

angelstar · 28/01/2008 16:46

Hmm I guess I understand that everyone will have different opinions on lotteries as everyone will be in differing situations. I would probably be upset if I had spent alot of money moving into an area specifically so my children can attend (or have a v. good chance of attending) an excellent school. I guess I am lucky in one aspect in that the schools around here are not full, the downside to this is that the reason they are not full is that all the comprehensive schools within 5 miles of me are nothing to get excited about. They are pretty much all not so great. There are no grammer schools in my LEA either.

Blu · 28/01/2008 16:46

Xenia - there's a big difference between a school bus and taking public transport, though. And I can't see a school bus from every area into every secondary school...

policywonk · 28/01/2008 17:16

Blu - as I understand it, in Brighton the lottery works within two tightly defined areas (roughly two miles apart). Parents from outside those areas are not considered for the over-subscribed schools at all.

I like the lottery idea, but I do think it has to be limited, distance-wise, and is really only suitable for high-density urban areas.

Blu · 28/01/2008 17:33

aha! Thank you Policywonk.

That sounds fair and sensible to me.

Blu · 28/01/2008 17:36

People will still get round it....I can just see 'place at St Aghast's CoE Foundation School - starting bids £1000' on e bay.

Quattrocento · 28/01/2008 17:45

I think lotteries are an absolute must. It would be nice to think that siblings would be guaranteed a place in the same school. Are there any mums from Brighton online? How does it work in practice there?

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 28/01/2008 17:49

It is very fair.
If it is based on proximity then only children from families who can afford the inflated house prices by near schools will get a good education.
It's a second tier of the private system imo.

Blu · 28/01/2008 17:57

But this lottery business will only apply to secondary schools, won't it??
And siblings isn't always a criteria for secondary - on the grounds that secondary children can get themselves to and from school.

policywonk · 28/01/2008 18:25

Quattro, we appear to be agreeing on something

There's a poster further down this thread called katepol who seems to know her onions about the Brighton situation.

Quattrocento · 28/01/2008 18:27

Yes but do you also agree about the abolition of faith schools?

policywonk · 28/01/2008 18:29

Oh yes.