So is anyone else reading this stuff about school admission lotteries...

[UnquietDad]

...and thinking "if they try that on round here, there will be blood on the streets?"

Because I know I am.

Maybe some people like the idea...?

there's also definitely truth in what ScienceTeacher has posted, in that the causes of poor behaviour need to be addressed as well, as an intrinisic part of the educational process.

but it's a laziness factor, too, as well as one of folks not responding well to force.

busing means you have to get up that much earlier. and it's like 2 for £5 chickens in Tesco, people can't be arsed so they buy it.

that is (of course) assuming that the buses are actually available to be used in the first place LOL

LEA's have a duty to provide transport if they have placed a child over 8 in a school more than 3 miles away
here

If a parent has decided for a far away school when there is a place at one nearer then its tough.

but needmorecoffee - we have 3 senior schools which do NOT have enough places for all the children in the "feeder" schools - and they stopped the bus service 2yrs ago to the school in the next town that most pupils who hadn't got into the local ones went to! Huge outcry and protests but still stopped.

yes but some children live just under 3 miles away from their local school here, not entitled to free school buses. the road is a narrow unlit country road or alternatively a dual carriageway. and the kids are expected to walk, nearly 3 miles down a dark country road, no proper footpaths etc at age 11. consequently the roads in our village are gridloacked at 8.30 and 3.30.......

I agree - 3 miles or just under) is a long way to walk, both ways, with a school bag often on an unsuitable route.

FAQ, then they are acting illegally and someone should take them to tribunal. Although if all 3 of your town's schools are full then this lottery thing doesn't affect you anyway.
Beautifuldays, again you can prove its unsafe at tribunal or walk them to school. I walked 3 miles to school for senior school. Or pay for a bus. Its cheaper than owning a car. ds1 goes to a school 7 miles away cos the local one is pants and we pay the bus fare. We're on benefits but just cut back elsewhere.
Least you got schools. In our city there are no special needs schools for over 11's if the child is severely physically impaired but cognitvely ok. 3 SN schools, all of which are for learning disabled children. The nearest suitable school for my dd is 45 miles away. We don't get a choice. I'd push her wheelchair 3 miles if I could.
Wish a lottery would get her into a close by school.

3 miles is not very far really. Takes less than an hour.

Policywonk is about right on the Brighton situation. Results are due out in a few weeks - this is the first lottery year - but apparently, prelim reports are that everyone in the lottery will get one of the two good schools, but only because they are expnding one of the schools by 60 places per year. If not, then the unlucky childrne would have to travel miles away to less 'successful' schools.

Brighton's issue is one of geography, and yes, the policy was done to engineer labour councillor votes in an area which was under threat from the Greens. The parents got what they wanted (access to the good schools, but in a lottery), but voted the Greens in anyway!

The location of schools in Brighton is very random, but it may mean in future that children have to make two journeys each morning and evening (one into town, then out to the school - there are no direct bus routes between schools and no prospect of school transport). Other children will be doing the reverse journey.

It doesn't make sense to me that this should happen. However, while there is such a difference in 'quality' of schools in Brighton, the lottery has been deemed the fairest way.

Obviously, the best idea is to make every neighbourhood school a good one, that people will want to send their child to no matter what the demographic. Hwr, the poorer performing schools have had loads of money chucked at them over the last decade and still the disparities persist. I am not sure that there is a solution at all, but I can see both the morality of the lottery and the lunacy of it

but there is no way (hypothetically - she is only 1 atm) i would let my 11 yr old daughter walk 3 miles in the dark down an unlit country road.

a lot of parents did kick up a stink, not sure if it went as far as atribunal, but the lea deemed it a 'safe walking route'

they not all walking together then or with parents?

also we live 500km or so from the local secondary. but the next closest schools in the borough are 7-15 miles away. i wouldn't bus my kids 10 miles or so to school when there is one a couple of streets away. it's lunacy

no noeedmorecoffee because there is no proper footpath. it's not safe for adults let alone kids. and when you have younger children at the local primary and then have to be at the secondary school 3 miles away you can hardly walk there. therefore our whole village grinds to a standstill with cars at school drop off/pick up.

no proper footpath to DD1's school, either.

bendy, single carriageway country road.

the bus is the normal public bus, but at school times it's the school bus and drops kids off as such/collects them as such.

there is one secondary school for a very large area - so large, some children must board - but again, they lay on bus fare.

ON a personal level, despie us both being in good jobs and 'middle class', we cannot afford private but live in a catchment for a good infant school. We have a smaller property than we would really like but cannot move away as we would like our kids to get into good local infant school. I would be gutted if we didn't get in and someone with a bigger house living in a catchment for a not so desriable school catchment got in. The whole thing is mad but don't assume that everyone who wants to send their child to a good school has the resources to go private. Additionally, if lottery was introduced then I presume our house value would fall hence living us in an even more depressing situation. PLease explain how I am meant to be happy about this?

and anyway what about parents evenings school concerts etc? bet they won't be planning on laying on free buses for parents who live miles away from their kids school and don't have a car. it's crazy. every kid should go to their local school.

katepol - do you know how the Muesli Mountain parents feel about the lottery? We only seem to hear from the Preston Park parents.

This is what the large private schools do in our area. They lay on 50 busees a day from Hampstead out to Hertfordshire to get the children to the schools. Parents drop off at local pick up point at 7.50am or whatever or child walks to the pick up point. Works fine BUT parents have to be able to afford it. Also some children cycle to school if they don't live too far away or take public transport where possible at senior school level. When there are matches and clubs there are also "late coaches" every day leaving at 4.30 or 5 or even 5.30pm. It is a brilliant system which really helps if both parents work full time but only for those who can afford that type of school.

As for the proposal of state system lotteries it will be fairer but will be fun to see how it pans out. I saw also in the press they were writing about children taking exams and admitting 20% from clever, range, 20% from next clever range etc down to very thick so you get a mixture of abilities thus you might get a place by doing less than your best in some ways.... bizarre system which I think some schools already use again to try to ensure fairness.

A lottery is a very fair way of allocating school places, of course it is. But I don't believe it will enhance standards in education - won't there just be mass mediocrity/crapness?

lotteries are inherentl unfair.

i mean, a convicted rapist wins £7m whilst out on weekend release and not someone who was far more deserving.

or let's look at NHS trust lotteries. don't live in a certain area: don't get life-prolonging treatments that someone else living in the next county does.

but you can chose not to play lotto or appeal to your NHS trust to get them to try to pay for treatment.

but what about when it comes to schools?

see, it's not a very fair system to begin with, yet when you factor in the fact that here it is being used to force someone to send their kid across town to a school they don't want, it's destined to fail.

I don't think they are inherently unfair - they are inherently random. (For instance, a wholly deserving person can also win on a lottery.) They can throw up some injustices, but IMO the current system throws up more.

that's much better than how i put it, policy. i agree, they are very random.

maybe it'll work in this instance, who knows?

but i wonder that it will even get past all the protests.

Where is all the lottery talk coming from anyway - is someone in government talking about it? Cos there have been a couple of threads recently.

I'm sure you're right about people being resistant - from my POV I hope that that can be overcome, but I must admit that my interest in this is a little selfish, given our school situation.

I think it's in new rules - see today's Telegraph - "On Friday it emerged that this September's entry to the best state schools in at least seven council areas will be chosen by lottery. Other education authorities are said to be considering similar schemes."

See www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=5ZCUISWE4I54DQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2008/01/26 /nschool126.xml

Ah thank you Xenia