St Catherine’s Bramley and St Teresa’s Effingham

[Surreyschools]

Does anyone have any feedback on either of these schools? I liked elements of both but also have worries about both.

Felt confident that my daughter would do well academically at St Cats but worried about her pastorally. Doing tests and ranking her as a number in her year sounds a bit soul destroying and I’m concerned the competitiveness between the girls will make for an unhappy atmosphere. Also worried about their no blame bullying policy which seems to have failed them over the years but they haven’t changed it.

Felt confident my daughter would be happy at St Teresa’s and they have more of a focus on the pastoral side. However, some of the staff didn’t seem enthusiastic about the place (one said the benefit of going there against a state school is no annoying boys and less rubbish) and I sensed some tension from staff around changes the Head may have introduced that they aren’t on board with. The girls who showed me around said there are a lot of staff who have left and are new. Also worried it won’t be academically challenging enough for my daughter who is bright but not cut throat competitive.

Any feedback from parents with girls there would be much appreciated!

Have you thought about Tormead?

Yes Tormead is on the list! We really liked it but having been at a town school for prep we were really hoping for more of a countryside feel for secondary. If we could move Tormead to the countryside it would be perfect!

I have a DD currently at St Teresa’s prep school. We couldn’t be happier with the outstanding all round education she is receiving.

Set in beautiful grounds, the school is big enough to encourage healthy competition and small enough that each girl can still be treated as an individual. With the school’s support they soon learn what their individual talents are and how to hone these. We’ve seen many improvements over the last decade under the new prep head, it has grown into a flourishing prep and is now oversubscribed for most year groups.

We specifically chose a school that isn’t a hot house and do not openly rank children against others, despite DD being academic.We wanted a caring but aspirational school that would put DD and the needs of her peers first without sacrificing some children’s mental health for league table positions and neglect development of the softer skills.

The prep school very much has a home from home atmosphere and pastoral support is excellent. There are many opportunities to do very well and find one’s niche as well as very good support when life gets difficult. The school served DD very well over lockdown and kept her motivated and her grades high.

I don’t have personal experience of the senior school yet as DD is still in prep. However, the vast majority of bright, talented St Teresa’s prep school girls now select the senior school as their first choice. The senior school seems to be upping their game to keep and acquire more local families who expect nothing less than the best all round education for their children. This is a shift away from the old senior school ways that up to a decade ago seemed to focus more on attracting boarders. Staff are expected to deliver as the parents of the now mostly day girl cohort constantly keep tabs on how their children are progressing. They can also compare the value added by St Ts to other schools in the area as it is surrounded by very competitive state and private schools. Many parents have multiple schools to compare and choose from and don’t shy away from mixing and matching the different state and private options available to them that seem the best fit for each stage of their children’s education. If you are in catchment of an excellent state school that will also turn out well rounded children who get into Oxbridge and other prestigious universities then you are going to want to see exactly where your money is going when you look round the independent schools.

So from a prep school perspective we are currently very happy with St Teresa’s. And also watching with interest how the senior school develops under the care of the relatively new staff and leadership and more official links with Cranmore.

And yes, we love the dreamy park-like drive surrounded by farmland and lined by woods, the old Georgian manor house that forms part of the senior school building overlooking the stables; the horses popping their heads out to greet us each morning, the pretty chapel... We feel very lucky that we can drop DD at a school set in such beautiful tranquil natural surroundings each morning. It seems like a different world each season; the St Teresa’s grounds are vast and simply stunning.

Hey @Surreyschools where are you based?
I think you've got them both about right. St.Cats is academic and seems to take sport very seriously, from matches I've watched, it's a little too Alpha for me (im not at any schools in this post as my DC is a DS!). But if you want good results and DD is strong, I'm sure she'll do well there.

StTs is less academic by far, but more cosy and pasotaly minded, with added grass fields to boot. When the whole diamond model thing happened it was handled badly and at that point a lot of girls left for other Preps. From friends there that seems to have stabilised.

Both have outstanding countryside grounds, so perhaps your location could play a strong factor too - given the local traffic issues?

Agree on Tormead by a PP, a teleport to the countryside would have it surpass other local schools, by eons, in seconds... but then it's a city centre, modern, slightly edgy but cosy/caring school, which is why people likely choose it.

If you're picking between the two, me, I would go to St Theresa's. But that's based on my DC, if he was a girl, he would shrink at StCats under the academic, sport, traditional style. Yours, however, may thrive!

Good luck.

I've Pm'd you

We’re going to be moving to the area so don’t need to factor that it to our decision as we can move nearest to the right school.

We've picked St Teresa's and didn't look at any other schools apart from St Cats which we liked a lot. St Ts suited DD more and am very happy with them. We didn't want a town school which ruled out Tormead for us.

Thanks. How do you find St T on the academic side? My daughter seems to be doing well at her current school. Lots of people tell me St Ts is less academic (and their results are lower than St Cats) so I’m wondering if my daughter would be stretched enough. Do you find they can cater to all levels?

There are lots of academic girls and scholars in DDs year and their recent results were extremely good. We were not looking for a results-only school, but somewhere where DD could be happy and do her best without being too stressed. (I went to a very academic girls school and I always felt like a failure.) Their girls do really well and I liked them which is so important!

We chose StCats, current Year 7, had to choose between Priors field, StCats and StTs due to logistics..... academics at StCats, on the spreadsheets (and in reality) are great, but day to day school life has not been great. DD is just not that elated to go to school, she is just a middle of the road girl and doesnt feel part of anything.. she has friends elsewhere through 'a club' who love their schools, which all seem much broader in their inclusion. We're semi keeping our eyes out for a move, but not sure, howver the fees in todays climate may make the decision for us.

My DD just bobs around, you've only got to look at the StCats social media to see they only celebrate the bright, the old stuffy alumni and the sporty... where winning is literally their only aim.

I know nothing of StTs this year but I imagine it might be where we end up!

Ps. It's worth noting we didn't initially pick StTs due to the academics, and because despite a PP mentioning academic scholarships, etc. they're all relative... an academic scholarship at StTs is not going to be the same level as one at StCats, by faaaaaarrrrrrr. Note, we didn't get a StCat scholarship, but did get a Priors Field and StTs one.
Also agree Tormead would be great for my middle of the road DD, but it simply doesn't work for us getting into town from where we are and then me to work. StJohns also an option for us right now (maybe worth a look?) but co-ed.

We have a daughter who left St Ts last year. We chose the school as, having attended competitive private schools ourselves, we felt that our children shouldn’t have to experience that type of pressure. We were delighted with the school. I felt our daughter was stretched and challenged academically just as far as was right for her, but it was always about how much could she do and not about competing against her friends. There is a wider range of abilities than some of the local schools but we found that bred tolerance as they were all lovely girls with talents, just maybe that talent wasn’t passing exams. (And once you leave education, how useful is a talent for passing exams anyway?) As a result of the girls being encouraged to support each other and focus on whether their work was as good as they personally could do rather than compete against each other, they built healthy and positive friendships. This was all very different to my experience when I attended a competitive private girls’ school where the friendships were often toxic.

How do you know that the girls who got scholarships at St Ts didn't win scholarships elsewhere too and chose St Ts over them? you are basing this on your daughter only.

Also worried about their no blame bullying policy which seems to have failed them over the years but they haven’t changed it.

@Surreyschools What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate as I am thinking of the school for my DD. I don't know anyone at the school - I like the academics and the facilities but unsure re - pastoral care etc. Any advice would be appreciated.

I moved my daughter from St Cats to St Ts. She’s bright but was not thriving. Yes St Cats results are better but only because St Ts take in girls with a broader range of academic abilities. The head teacher and teaching at St Ts is outstanding as is the pastoral care. We have never felt any of the teachers are fed up or that there is an unusually high turn over of staff. My daughter is excelling academically but more importantly is very happy, has wonderful friends and feels supported, encouraged and valued. The A-level results this year were fantastic. They encourage the girls to be ambitious and work hard but without adding undue stress and pressure. Best of luck with your choice but don’t be worried that St Ts isn’t academic enough. That’s certainly not been the case in our experience.

@Berrylina if you look on the St Cats website you can read their No blame bullying policy - which is not the approach adopted by many schools. If you Google St Cats and bullying quite a lot will come up on Mumsnet. I then spoke to a number of parents who had/have a child at the school. They raved about the prep but were negative about the senior school. They said bullying was a real issue and dealt with badly at school and was so prevalent (the word endemic was used to describe it to me) that it was even raised in the school newsletter. The head said she was aware of the issue and going to address it. I do wonder how that is possible though if the bullying policy remains unchanged. The approach hasn’t worked in the past so why does it continue to be adopted?

We've been through the process of choosing between these schools recently. St Cats is brilliant on paper. Amazing facilities, mix of tradition and modern, love the house system, like how it is quite practical seeming and keeps the girls busy, seems to put lots of emphasis on good social skills and rounded individuals.

Reality seems sadly the head has been there a long time and it is quite stuck in the past because of her approach. I think with a new head from outside it will quickly become a brilliant option again.

We looked at their anti bullying policy after seeing the chat on here. I understand the sentiment of it but it then seems to be quite excessive and take the no blame too far. Sometimes teenagers are just plain unkind and pick on someone more vulnerable or different. That's not ok and needs to be given a consequence. I understand a lot of girls get into friendship dramas and that's when things are murky. But there needs to be proactive work the other side like lots of the other girls' schools do now. DD's school train them up (and us as parents) on how to independently solve normal friendship disputes and distinguish between things that are purposeful and things which are clumsy or jealous friendship behaviours. Lots of emphasis on diffusing quickly and moving on.

We turned down st cats. I was gutted as always thought it was where I wanted dd to go.

This makes such interesting reading. Current thinking is a trade off between St Cats and Priors field. Like so much about both but very different.

DD is bright all rounder but a little fragile and could be at risk of unhappiness if she doesn't have the sharp elbows or stamina to deal with headstrong girls at St Cats.

PF was a delight. Every pupil and member of staff we spoke with was impressive, kind, confident and welcoming. A small part of me worries if we chose PF over st Cats that we'd be copping out of the stretch / challenging 'big opportunity' for a safer bet.

DD loves PF. Obviously we want to give her every opportunity and every happiness...

Any advice?

Results may decided for us!!

@rainbowpony I know both schools & would bet she will do well at both. Why the concern about not fully stretching her academically? school is about building character, values, a work ethos, charm.. and grades simply open doors to get to whatever stage of academia is required to have the choice to pursue a fulfilling & prosperous career. Chill. Let her go where she'll be happy x

You're very right to worry about St Cats pastorally, if it's anything like when I was there - which it will be, same head.

It was horrendous and I've been in therapy since. Pressure is so heavy that EDs and self harm were rife. Very little leeway for personal circumstances. I was/am very academic - 10 A*s GCSE, 5 A levels, but the culture was toxic.

@rainbowpony Priorsfield a thousand times over. I went back to my lovely prep school for an open day recently and my favourite teacher said she worried about me going to St Cats at the time and wished I had gone to PF.

Don't send a fragile girl to St Cats. If she's academic she will thrive at any good school.

Thanks for all the insight - I think it's confirming what I feel. Now... let's hope the exam goes well! Much appreciated.

Think we are also leaning towards it’s better to be happy with good pastoral care and towards top of the year academically than middle and miserable at a pushier school. So we will probably go for St T or Tormead whilst also hoping the Head of St Cats retires and someone wonderful takes over!!