11+ is my dc not clever enough to bother?!

[cherryintop]

My dc has just started year 5. I gave them a 11+ bond book the age 10-11 English one set a timer and gave them a test to see where they're at. They got 33%. I'm now thinking perhaps it's not a good idea to pursue a grammar place.

The schools round our way are awful if you don't get a place so I was hoping to try but now I'm a bit shocked and thinking is it even worth trying when we're starting at such a low point.

They do need practice!

1. speak to your childs teacher, to see what their thoughts are on your dc and taking the 11+.

2. a lot if the 11+ is practice and familiarity with the questions, the more they do the faster they will get, as they will spend less time focusing on interpreting the questions.

3. some things like NVR are not taught in schools, this is why most people go for tutors.

4. have a think about your dc and their personality type. Do they flourish in high pressure environments (like grammar) or would they be more motivated being in the top set of a comp?

Ok so am I being unfair because I'd have expected them to get more like 50% first attempt and then work from there. 33% seems a low score, with large chunks left out.
Their school is not great. Dc seemed to have no idea about quite a few things, what a root word is, what reported speech is. Types of nouns etc. seems like it will be an uphill struggle.
Their teacher isn't the best and doesn't approve of 11+.

I am happy to work on it but I am now wondering if they stand a chance of keeping up. They are amazing at maths. Haven't tried VR yet. But thought english would be ok because I thought they covered it in school. They love studying and they're good in school I haven't heard anything other than they're doing well in school but our school just isn't great.

My DS started tutoring at beginning of yr5. He wasn't ready to focus on it sooner than that. His tutor did a mock about 6 weeks in to his sessions. It was the 2nd mock for his cohort but he started late so we skipped the first one.

He did bad. Really bad. The tutor recommended we don't put him forward for 11+ but we could continue tutoring to help him catch up for SATs. DS is very able and not behind at all. The scores on that mock were 13% and 36% for the 2 papers CEM.

2nd mock he got 71% and 76% and has continued to progress well. He did his 11+ yesterday.

He just needed time to get in to the swing of how the actual test questions are written, to quickly understand what is being asked of him, and also practice how to answer questions quickly and instinctively. It a very different way of working to anything they do at school.

I recommend using a tutor as they will prepare your DC for exam conditions as well as how to answer the style of questions asked for your area.

I heard that if they work at Greater Depth for all subjects then that is a good indication they are 11+ candidates.

I wouldn't worry too much at this stage. Get him a tutor & ask the tutor for feedback.

Thanks these replies are reassuring at least. @jessieminto I wish your ds all the best! So difficult all of this.
I will look into getting a tutor as well.

A lot of it is down to familiarity with the style of the exam questions etc. getting 33% doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it. They need to familiarise themselves with the papers first. Look into what exam board the grammar school uses (there are a few different ones) and then buy some workbooks based on that format. Go through the worksheet part of the book before you do any more tests. Personally I don't like the Bond ones. CGP are better. Good luck!

Thanks @catsnore everyone kept telling me to get the bond books. Clearly I have no idea. I will look up the exam board too.

Don't despair! The 10-11 books are for Year 6. If your DC has just started Year 5 they should be doing age 9-10 books. And if they've never done these books before, it's not at all surprising that they didn't do well on a Year 6 book (they probably haven't even covered that part of the curriculum in school yet). Get them the 9-10 books and see how they do. And if even those are a stretch, get them the 8-9, just to get them into the swing of things. At this stage it's all about building their confidence - so start easy and work your way up. You've still got over a year - there's time!

Also, I agree with @catsnore - I don't like the Bond books either (and neither does my DC). CGP books are good for both CEM and GL practice.

One question: Is your dc resilient? If they are quite anxious (but high achieving in the classroom) the 11+ process can be quite damaging for his or her confidence. What are the local schools like? Will your dc's friends also go to grammar or local?

Don't give up. 33% isn't bad on her first paper if its her time and she's had no practice.

11plus is down to practice on time and the questions types. At that age your DD will have little to no exams condition experience. I would say make a practice timetable and remember 'little and often'

They love studying and they're good in school I haven't heard anything other than they're doing well in school but our school just isn't great.

What is lacking in your view?

Your dc's should really keep their views on 11+ to themselves. What did they say?

I run a tutoring business for 11+ with DH

There's a huge difference between not being 'smart' enough and not having been taught the material. For example, I know very little about psychology, but when I read books on it, I pick it up quickly. When I started my career, I knew nothing of accounting but passed my ACA first time and became a great accountant.

I would persevere. As long as it doesn't harm your child mental health wise and you're not militant, I've always been of the opinion 'what's the harm?'

If they get in, great. You then can decide if it's for the best. If they don't, then you're in the same place you started.

Oh and just to add to this, the 11+ where we are includes material not in the syllabus until year 7 - so impossible without a very intelligent / on the ball /aware parent with heaps of time, or private tutoring.

I would start with the 9-10 books rather than 10-11 bond books. Best to build up confidence and do little a often. 50 per cent is exam technique.
Some of the English terminology I've no clue. It's certainly alot more technical than when I was at school.

All good advice. I am going to order the CGP 11+ books today tutors I'm struggling on. How can I even tell who's good or not. The prices are reasonably low to astronomical!
Am glad someone pointed out I was using year 6 books. Quite an ask for year 7 stuff in an early year 6 exam!
Yes dc is resilient. And I do say it doesn't matter etc the results. I'm not worried, no doubt their friends are going through equal or more torture 😄

As above. We like CGP but yes the cgp 10-11 is for end of Yr 6. 9-10 for end of Yr 5. So at beginning of Yr 5 you're starting him on stuff 2 years ahead.

We worked through 9-10 maths then 10-11 but also needed the year 5 year in school to cement the maths concepts.

Look to see exactly what the tests are. We have verbal reasoning (and some have non verbal reasoning). Both these can improve with familiarity and aren't taught in school so this is what we focused on first term of Yr 5 and let the maths and English catch up a bit in school before pushing ahead too much!

Good luck.

As op said where we are the 11+ covers things that haven't been taught in school before they sit the exam.

My DD had kids in her class who were consistently at the top of the class who didn't pass. Hearing that one of them cried and felt stupid after getting their results is heartbreaking and the parents in this case did nothing to contribute to those feelings. These kids are thriving in their new schools.

DD had the choice of doing the 11+. I told her if she chose it I would get a tutor as didn't want any strain between us and if it became difficult we wouldn't go ahead with it as I felt she needed to want it.

DD's 1 hour a week group tuition started from October year 5. I found them on social media and netmums and they used to be teachers at local schools. There were a lot of reviews as they teach 70-80 kids a year. DD liked the classes and the tutor was very engaging with them. They don't take kids earlier than year 5 but I hear of people doing tuition from the start of school.

They had a mock test in the January but warned us that results would not look good as they had not covered everything. In our area speed is key. The tutor really emphasised this so practice is important. We were asked to do times tables daily and time them and try to get as fast as we could to help with maths and being able to answer the questions quickly. As she was with the tutor until the summer holidays we didn't do the CGP books until nearer the time when we did the 10min ones daily and the big tests once a week and I think they are very good.

Just to add, DS had 1 hr a week tutor in a group with 3 other kids, max size was 4 for the group. He preferred this and did not want 121. I found they were very comprehensive in going over all areas, rather than focusing on weaker areas only. This was better for us as DS flip flopped between being weaker in different areas at different times.

Do you live in a grammar area where the top 25% get in? Or a super selective area, where a much smaller % get in? Was your child meet expectations exceeding in their last report?